Jacks - King on Flop, now what?

[NicksDad1970]

I didn't want to read any responses before I added something. I think you should have raised more preflop. There was 170 in the pot befor eyou raised to 200 for a total of 370. If noone else calls the MP1 will. So I would guess a raise of about 350 more tota total of 450 would have been better.

I can't see anyone not saying raise more now I can go see how much.

GL

[Optisizer]

Using this this thread as a starting point for another questions, let me ask you veterans this: I sometimes (as an alternative play) min re-raise with QQ or AK to get a feel for if I might be up against KK or AA. Thinking is, if I get re-re-raised by the original raiser I will play this hand very carefully and maybe even fold right away - depending on my read of the original raiser. What are your thoughts on this play???

[SuperUberBob]

No. I re-raise AK as normal. AK is only ace high, it's not as if it is a made hand preflop.

The problem with a min re-raise is that you're not finding out any information about your opponent's hand if they call because they're going to call the min-raise solely based on good pot odds. It's just a tiny bit more for them to call.

[Optisizer]

But that is exactly my thinking. If original raiser only call my min raise I assume with higher degree of certainty he doesn't have AA or KK so if I have AK and A or K falls on flop I can play strong, but if I have QQ and A or K falls on flop I go slow, because now I assume with higher degree of certainty that he hit either with an AK in the hole - or in case of flopped A, an AX hand). Wrong?

[BrendoK]

The thing is that you're pricing in so many hands, especially at the lower limits that you could create a very volatile pot. The logic behind your miniraise assumes that there will be no callers behind you. Often this is not the case.....

[Optisizer]

[ QUOTE ]
The thing is that you're pricing in so many hands, especially at the lower limits that you could create a very volatile pot. The logic behind your miniraise assumes that there will be no callers behind you. Often this is not the case.....

[/ QUOTE ]

That is true and a good point. Play should thus be reserved for CO, But or Blinds - actually preferably just the blinds, as in the blinds you might not want to committ too much to the pot anyway, being out of pos and all...

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks all, I think I was too focused on the BB amount and I did the minraise. As patchdiaz said, I needed to put myself into MP1's space... 100 more into a 370 pot, not bad at all!

I am a big boy now.

What is RSI?

[/ QUOTE ]

Repetitive stress injury, caused by a confluence of stress and mosue action.

About jacks post-flop multiway, I suggest playing with this tool:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_odds/texas_holdem

Think about the hands that your opponents might be playing and see how jacks face up to those hands in a four way pot, as against heads up and then think about what one is trying to achieve with a pre-flop raise. Two things are always good with a made but vulnerable pocket hand: narrow the number of callers and be the last to act when the flop comes.

Let's say, for example, that your opponents do not have a king (which we know because they fold the flop) and are holding A7s, Q9s and 10s (explaining the raise call). You are a clear favourite over all of these hands heads up, but only 35% four way. And yet if you raise to 400 and OR calls, the money in the pot is more or less the same as if you raise to 200 and the limpers call.

Now let's say you raise to 400. A7s and Q9s may come along but it's much more likely that they fold to a big raise, followed by a bigger reraise. The 10s should call. If the flop is undercards, you will probably stack the tens. In any event, you will kmake some more money because the tens will find it difficult to let go in what is now a big pot and you are in position, so you can exploit this.

This is just one speculative example, but I think it's instructive.