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#11
09-14-2006, 12:55 PM
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Re: How do you play these?
[ QUOTE ]
If you really felt that this guy was going to checkraise the turn more than optimally... [/ QUOTE ] Great conjecture and shows you're really thinking about the post. I read OPs 100% comment to mean that he thought he knew ("knew") he was beat. That is, of course, a poor way of approaching these decisions. I, too, want to showdown here. Given aggressive, winning opponent, a call on the turn is better than a fold. But when I don't know what the raise will mean, I'm going to check and call the river more often than risk the turn raise until I get a bead on the guy. Helps me develop the read as well as saving a bet here often. 
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#12
09-14-2006, 08:50 PM
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Re: How do you play these?
Folding PF is in no way cut & dry. Some players might fold this PF, but I play about 29/22 and I am always raising Q9 from the CO.
As other said, I wouldn't fold here, so you just have to decide what your reaction will be when you are raised and then bet or check accordingly.
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#13
09-15-2006, 12:09 AM
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Re: How do you play these?
[ QUOTE ]
Folding PF is in no way cut & dry. Some players might fold this PF, but I play about 29/22 and I am always raising Q9 from the CO. As other said, I wouldn't fold here, so you just have to decide what your reaction will be when you are raised and then bet or check accordingly. [/ QUOTE ] I thought hero was raising from HJ which is why I said clear fold. From the CO it is closer for me, but folding even here is my standard play with no reads.
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#14
09-15-2006, 07:15 AM
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Re: How do you play these?
if you *knew* a checkraise was coming why bet if you are planning on folding? useless question? absolutely!
sometimes i will fold sometimes i will call the turn checkraise. everybody's all like, depends on villian's bluffing frequency. it also depends on your folding frequency here too because sometimes you will fold or call in this spot by "feel" and "gut" rather than follow a set plan. against someone i am not too sure about i will give them the benefit of the doubt and fold, but once i get a better feeling about exactly how aggro he is i will adjust and sometimes against these players flop pair = showdown no matter what action there is.
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#15
09-15-2006, 07:17 AM
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Re: How do you play these?
[ QUOTE ]
you'll see diamonds try this again, along with other pairs that think maybe you can fold a better pair. [/ QUOTE ] you mean like, Ad xd ? [ QUOTE ] why is it so likely that he had to hit the ace? [/ QUOTE ] would you at least agree that villin is more likely to have an ace than before given that he did in fact checkraise it?
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#16
09-15-2006, 01:03 PM
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Re: How do you play these?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i'd fold preflop [/ QUOTE ] these threads annoy me. How is everyone 30/20 + if they arent raising Q9o from the CO? When I cared about trying to up my VPIP/PFR to the "golden ratio" Id follow all the advice in threads and still end up lower than those numbers. Everyone is like "fold PF" and then they show their stats and they are 33/23 and stuff. [/ QUOTE ] Not to be nitty, but I will and point out that hero was not in the CO. He was in MP (or hijack) and two off the button 6 handed. This is way light. I don't think Q9s is profitable here either but certainly close. Offsuit is an easy fold. I think getting to 30/20 is more about stealing more from the button/CO and defending more from the BB but whatever. I can't get my numbers there, nor do I want to. edit to say I just reread the action and it looks like it is 5 handed but converter says "6 handed". confused.
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#17
09-15-2006, 01:27 PM
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Re: How do you play these?
[/ QUOTE ] edit to say I just reread the action and it looks like it is 5 handed but converter says "6 handed". confused. [/ QUOTE ] Hmm, weird. The hand was raised from the CO though.
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#18
09-15-2006, 01:37 PM
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Re: How do you play these?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i'd fold preflop [/ QUOTE ] these threads annoy me. How is everyone 30/20 + if they arent raising Q9o from the CO? When I cared about trying to up my VPIP/PFR to the "golden ratio" Id follow all the advice in threads and still end up lower than those numbers. Everyone is like "fold PF" and then they show their stats and they are 33/23 and stuff. [/ QUOTE ] Not to be nitty, but I will and point out that hero was not in the CO. He was in MP (or hijack) and two off the button 6 handed. This is way light. I don't think Q9s is profitable here either but certainly close. Offsuit is an easy fold. I think getting to 30/20 is more about stealing more from the button/CO and defending more from the BB but whatever. I can't get my numbers there, nor do I want to. edit to say I just reread the action and it looks like it is 5 handed but converter says "6 handed". confused. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with you. Also, I think alot of the alleged 30/20s play alot of 3-4 handed which skews their numbers, most are something like 26/19 when filtered for 6 handed only. It's tough to get to 30vpip without overdefending your blinds or stealing in super-marginal situations 6handed. Surf
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#19
09-15-2006, 02:57 PM
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Re: How do you play these?
Another observation with my own numbers which is obvious but worth mentioning is that they do vary based on the game and site. On less aggro sites I can push closer to 30/20 but at party 10/20 or higher I am not able to raise as much with hands like A8, QJ, etc since it is so often raised in front of me.
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