how to play LA maniac lucky idiot?

[CaseS87]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi everyone,

I want to say something here. First, let’s stop calling super aggressive players "lunatics" and "lucky idiots". I too like to play super aggressive and constantly attack early position players and weakness. I don't care what I am holding, I play players and their fears and not my cards. It is actually a very hard game to play, and you have to be able to smell danger and let go, but other than that, if you can get good at this game, you will find yourself sitting at 5-7 times your starting stack (eg. if you playing $100NL, you'd be sitting at $500-$700 at the end of your session). The beauty about being aggressive is when I make an all-in bet with a lock hand on the river - I get action from all those that are out there to get me and sitting there and thinking "dam this dude, he is breaking the law of playing too many hands - I am gonna take his stack", but guess what?? He starts to challenge me every time I raise, and I fold, and call, and reraise, but then magic happens and "kachunk" - he got stacked. That's what I wanted him to do - to start challenging me. I can’t believe people, they will sit there and hold two pair or a TPTK and call an all-in bet on the river thinking that they are invincible. Sure, I loose small pots here and there, but all this time I am taking notes of those bad calls they are making, and then when it matters – I make my bets larger and return all my investments.

One thing I don’t like about tight players is that you can read them like a book. Here is an example...
I hold 72 off, everyone folds to me on the button, I raise 3 times BB, get re-raised by the BB 2.5 times, I call and the flop comes 2 3 7. The BB comes out firing with a slight overbet. What does this tell me??? From the preflop action and now, I know what he is holding – TT, JJ, QQ, KK, or AA, however, his most likely holding is QQ-AA. I know that so far I have him beat, BUT, there are two more cards to come and my two pair can get counterfeited, so, I just call instead of reraising and letting the possible unfortunate turn or river to screw me. The Turn comes 8, and the BB comes firing with a slight overbet again. I call and the river is a 10. The BB checks and I go all-in. I get called and paid off. And then I get to hear – “you are a lucky idiot” how do you play that crap, you are a looser, and ETC.

Has anyone learned a lesson here???

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Yeah, because of the position and high implied odds. If you are not willing to risk some money to get paid off, then you are just playing a cards contest. Waaay tooo many players are not able to let go of AA or KK. The board can have a pair, a straight possibility, a flush, and you can bet to represent either hand but will still get called, therefore, when you make a hand that is a better than your opponents pocket pair, you have to bet BIG. To take their money, because they think that AA is unbeatable. Let me aks you a question...

If you are playing a game $200NL, where everyone is sitting there with big stacks and you are on the button with AA, and 4 players went ALL-IN before you and 2 players are left to act - are you going to call???

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ok, these posts either are decent jokes, or 2 of the worst posts of all time. im going to respond as though they are serious.

first of all, its fairly clear the OP is talking about limit holdem and not no-limit. in limit holdem if you are constantly raising limpers with 72o, and putting in tons of bets on the turn with bottom pair, you are going to lose.

[ QUOTE ]
One thing I don’t like about tight players is that you can read them like a book.

[/ QUOTE ]

many times in poker you must abandon deception in order to play a more optimal strategy. are you saying that it is always correct to just call with pairs, reraise with junk etc just to disguise your preflop hand? why play tricky in a 100 nl game when its likely no one can read hands for crap anyways?

and the AA question- i dont have any idea wtf you are talking about. this is a cash game, there would be no reason not to call

[mikever]

As i understood he was talking about NL. or do you mean the OP? Cause i believe the OP may have been talking limit.

[snake_oiler]

i was talking limit hold 'em...

[tilted]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi everyone,

I want to say something here. First, let’s stop calling super aggressive players "lunatics" and "lucky idiots". I too like to play super aggressive and constantly attack early position players and weakness. I don't care what I am holding, I play players and their fears and not my cards. It is actually a very hard game to play, and you have to be able to smell danger and let go, but other than that, if you can get good at this game, you will find yourself sitting at 5-7 times your starting stack (eg. if you playing $100NL, you'd be sitting at $500-$700 at the end of your session). The beauty about being aggressive is when I make an all-in bet with a lock hand on the river - I get action from all those that are out there to get me and sitting there and thinking "dam this dude, he is breaking the law of playing too many hands - I am gonna take his stack", but guess what?? He starts to challenge me every time I raise, and I fold, and call, and reraise, but then magic happens and "kachunk" - he got stacked. That's what I wanted him to do - to start challenging me. I can’t believe people, they will sit there and hold two pair or a TPTK and call an all-in bet on the river thinking that they are invincible. Sure, I loose small pots here and there, but all this time I am taking notes of those bad calls they are making, and then when it matters – I make my bets larger and return all my investments.

One thing I don’t like about tight players is that you can read them like a book. Here is an example...
I hold 72 off, everyone folds to me on the button, I raise 3 times BB, get re-raised by the BB 2.5 times, I call and the flop comes 2 3 7. The BB comes out firing with a slight overbet. What does this tell me??? From the preflop action and now, I know what he is holding – TT, JJ, QQ, KK, or AA, however, his most likely holding is QQ-AA. I know that so far I have him beat, BUT, there are two more cards to come and my two pair can get counterfeited, so, I just call instead of reraising and letting the possible unfortunate turn or river to screw me. The Turn comes 8, and the BB comes firing with a slight overbet again. I call and the river is a 10. The BB checks and I go all-in. I get called and paid off. And then I get to hear – “you are a lucky idiot” how do you play that crap, you are a looser, and ETC.

Has anyone learned a lesson here???

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LOLLOL0OLOLOLO90LOLLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

you are 50 to 1 to flop 2 pair that is about all I will say.

[xVICTORx]

First of all, I was talking about NL Holdem. Second, I did not say that I was calling raises from early position with 72off. I said that I attack early position players if I have position on them. And if I am reraised, and depends on the amount of the reraise, I'll call and see the flop. If the opponent makes a small reraise then I have no problem calling. But, if the reraise is significant, then I'll just let go - I am not an idiot (eg. In ½ game, I raise to 5 and get reraised to 20, then I’ll let go, but if a reraise is small like 5-7 more, then we’ll play).

Second, if you answered YES to my question about calling an ALL-IN bet with AA with 4 players ALL-IN and 2 players left to act, then you are not very bright.

And third, like I said, playing super-aggressive is a VERY hard game. You have to be able to smell the danger and let go of your cards. But let me tell you, the control you get over people is very rewarding. You put players on tilt, you make them loose, you make them make mistakes, you make them challenge you at wrong times, you always keep them guessing, and you always put them to a decision. And the best part is that you get paid off when you have the lock hand.

I’ve been playing poker for over 5 years now, and out of all styles that are there I prefer Super Aggressive.

[Acein8ter]

[ QUOTE ]
To call a preflop reraise with 72off from a tight player when you know he has a high pair?

Sounds like a winning strategy.

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LOL, sure to make every a lot of $$$. +EV for sure

[Ruckus77]

I totally hear you Victor. I too get called a donkey, lucky, fish, etc... but when things are all said and done I come out ahead far more than I come out behind. By having a loose/aggressive table image you face difficult decisions more often, have bigger swings in your stack, are trapped and check-raised more frequently, and get called a variety of names but there is a BIG difference between having a maniac image and being a maniac. For those of you playing against player like me I recommend you cut back on the insults and try to understand the plays I make. If you can get past the image I am sending out you might just see some genius behind the plays. Now that being said, some players just see Gus and Phil on TV and are truly fish. The trick is to determine the difference and play them accordingly.

www.louisvilleKYpoker.com

[Mike]

Ditto, I played five hours Saturday night, had a pair of Aces thrown at me, and a second player couldn't get over I reraised with a little pair and made him fold his pair of Kings from what would have been a set of kings on the flop.

When it gets like that my raise preflop is often enough to take the pot on the flop.

I left with some of their chips, the rake took more of their chips, and they were still fighting it out with AK vs AQ vs JJ rounds paying off the rake and hoping for big hands.

It is a very hard style of play, but it works and there is little players can do to defeat it individually.

[cardcounter0]

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Has anyone learned a lesson here???

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Uhhh... Hmmmm... That position and good post flop play tend to nullify good preflop starting hand selection?

Especially when the flop hits you like a ton of bricks and the other players really suck at post flop play?

Thanks for the "lesson".

[xVICTORx]

That was not the lesson here. The "lesson" is that playing against a LAG is difficult, because you (as a tight player) can't put him on a hand. What I was trying to say is that when I get a lock hand, I can go balistic and will have customers.

So, if you are playing a tight game, and you play premium hands only, you MUST have discipline to fold if you are facing large action from LAG player. I too when holding AA or KK, know when to let go of those cards. But the problem is that too many players fall so much in love with those hands and can't let go. If you don't have the discipline to let go when the flop is not favorible, then you must either keep the pot small, or fold if the action heats up. ALWAYS, respect the position - for example, say you are in SB and got dealt AA, KK, or QQ, and the LAG in late position raises it 3 or 4 times the BB. DO NOT smooth call and DO NOT raise little!! You MUST reraise ALOT!! If you don't follow this then here is a great example of what happens...

I was on the button with 76 suited and raised 4 times BB. Small blind reraised 3 times my amount. I called and the flop was 786. The small blind went all-in for his huge stack. It was an easy call for me. The rest was history. What was his HUGE error??? First of all, he thought that he had God's gift in his hand and without getting proper information (due to a positional disadvantage) he put all of his money in the pot.

So, to answer the question about how to play against LAG players if you are playing a very tight game, especially out of position, you MUST reraise a HUGE amount if you are playing AA or KK, or, play extremely cautiously with other holdings.

Now, if your reraise chases everyone away, then you stand to win a little, but at least not to loose your stack to an unexpected hand. With premium hands, you want to be against pocket pairs that are below your pair, or against hands that your pair dominates (EG. AA vs AK or KK). I think that a proper play with AA these days is either to go all-in to see if anyone will call with hands like KK, QQ, JJ, TT, or AK, or, limp in to see the flop to make a set or other lock hand, otherwise check/call/fold. If you don't have this discipline, then you will continue to get sucked out on. That's why this game is HOLDEM/FOLDEM.

I wanted to add something here, so, lets say you are playing super tight (by this I mean you play high pocket pairs only - AA $ KK) if there is a raise before you, then you must reraise for a third or fourth of your opponents stack EG. in $100NL with blinds .5/1, and LAG raised to 4, then you raise 20 or 30 more to 24 or 34. Now, a smart LAG will most likely fold, but the maniac will probably reraise - and this is exactly what you want. Poker is about inducing mistakes. There are just too many donks that play online and these are the players that you want to take the money from. There will be times that the maniacs will get lucky, but as long as you know that he made a mistake by calling your huge bets with the worst, then you are ahead of the game. Just don't play the limits that are over your head. If a buy in of $100 is alot for you, then move down to very low stakes and move your way up gradually. So, that if you made a maniac to put all his money in pre-flop with a marginal hand against your AA or KK and you got sucked out on, that loss of a buy in should not be significant to you, because you played it correctly. Remember, you must put them to a decision.