NL25, advice needed on how to play flush draws

[MasterLJ]

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Personally I think you got aggressive on the flop that might have been better suited for a call/float and passive on a flop that you need to be maximimising your FE by putting raises in.

Hand 1: I'd just call the $4. Bet if checked to on the turn.
Hand 2: Stick in a large 3bet on the flop to around $7. Get the rest in on the turn.

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I couldn't disagree more.

Pre-flop play aside, I think it was done right. You don't want to float with less than 50% equity heads up. You have about 36% by the river and even less if/when the turn comes blank so you want to win the pot right there.

On hand 2 (again, pre-flop aside) you have tons of equity here with gut-shot + flush draw. Getting more people involved is better. With 2 callers, you are getting the right price to call virtually any sized bet on the flop and the turn. You can abandon ship on the river if you don't hit, or you now have 2 people from which to extract value if you do make your hand.

Post-flop, both hands are well played.

[InternetJunky]

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Hand 1, let's say I call the flop bet. The pot will be $14.10 and there will be $16 left in my stack. How small must his bet be for me to call again on the turn, if the turn card doesn't make me a flush? I guess it is too late to bluffraise there.


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I don't think I call a turn bet if the draw doesn't hit.
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And if he checks the turn, why bet then? Isn't it enough to get to see the river card?

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Unless he's tricky, and he's likely not, he checks the turn because he's worried. Bet big (push probably) and give him a reason to worry more.

[Dunkman]

If you don't pick up any more outs, $6 is about all you'd wanna call. I'm not sure I'd bet if checked to either, as again, I think you have very little FE, although him checking an uneventful turn card would make KK, AA and even AK a lot less likely, so you could reason that you have more FE on the turn and try a shove there, since his check is valuable information. The more I think about it the more I like a turn shove if checked to, although I'm still not sure we have enough FE.

Edit: Ok, thought about it a little more, and I definately like pushing the turn if checked to. Also, I really really hate pushing the flop now. AA, KK, and even AK are folding like never at 25nl, so all we fold out are QQ and JJ (or worse...suppose since it's button and BB he could have TT, or AQ.) QQ and JJ (and any worse hands) are most likely checking the turn to us after we call the flop, and folding to our turn push, so there's no real reason to blast them out on the flop, aside from the tiny chance that they hit the case card for a set.

[akkahai]

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I don't think I call a turn bet if the draw doesn't hit.


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Not even a minbet? How about 1/4 pot? 1/3 pot? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Ok maybe I can try to answer my own question. A bet where I get correct odds for flush to hit on river is a call, bigger than that is a fold.

[DanIsBluffin]

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Personally I think you got aggressive on the flop that might have been better suited for a call/float and passive on a flop that you need to be maximimising your FE by putting raises in.

Hand 1: I'd just call the $4. Bet if checked to on the turn.
Hand 2: Stick in a large 3bet on the flop to around $7. Get the rest in on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't disagree more.

Pre-flop play aside, I think it was done right. You don't want to float with less than 50% equity heads up. You have about 36% by the river and even less if/when the turn comes blank so you want to win the pot right there.

On hand 2 (again, pre-flop aside) you have tons of equity here with gut-shot + flush draw. Getting more people involved is better. With 2 callers, you are getting the right price to call virtually any sized bet on the flop and the turn. You can abandon ship on the river if you don't hit, or you now have 2 people from which to extract value if you do make your hand.

Post-flop, both hands are well played.

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Hand 2 can be profitably played in two ways. The way you've described is +EV - you're in a multiway pot with a FD and a redraw to trips (which is probably good) or 2pair (which may not be winning). He's betting small to you and you're easily getting the odds to call.

But I think by raising it up, then you're increasing your chances of winning the pot hugely, either uncontested (great) or if your draw hits and wins. Without doing any calculations, I think this is more +EV than taking a passive line. More variance too, but we aren't underrolled, right??