15BB Challenges

[bozlax]

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It taught me that playing a short stack in limit is a absolutely positively moronic thing to do...

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Ok, this is just an absolutely positively moronic thing to post. In the first place, 15BB isn't a "short stack." In the second, when was the last time you put the max (12BB) into a pot? Speaking for myself, I think the last time was playing a 15BB Challenge, and I was around 3/6 or 5/10 when it happened. It just doesn't happen at Micros unless you happen to be playing at a table with at least one true maniac (and usually more than one maniac playing off each other), and it's not going to happen to a non-maniac unless you hit a truly monster hand. It's -EV to let yourself get down to, say, 2BB (call it < 5BB), as that's barely enough to get you through the flop, but saying that you can't sit down at a table without 25BB and be successful is, in a word, wrong, and even being at the table with less than 5BB for a few hands can't posibly be a big leak (see the thousands of posts about what constitutes a big leak for an expanded discussion of this topic).

15BB Challenges, to me, provide a lot of the learning opportunities of playing 6max, but without the variance issues. You are pressured to get into pots, so you find new +EV situations, but you can also get away from pots when you need to. Playing 15BB stacks exclusively for a couple of months last year helped my game more than anything else I've done to date.

[Smurph64]

So bozlax if you lose the first hand you play or go around 3 times posting blinds how long does it take you to drop below 11bb.

And yet I see guys come in with 15bb and do that all the time. I thought the rules of the 15bb challenge were to start at 15bb and stay there.

I guess not everyone is as good as you are and can lose less than 4 bb in this challenge.

I never once said that 15 bb was a short stack, you inferred it.

If I ever sat at a table with less than 11 bb I would be a moron.

If I ever sit at a table and go below 11bb and don't reload I am a moron.

If you ever sit at a table with someone who sits at a table with less than 11bb and he raises first chance he gets, you can be damm sure the table is going for a high variance ride if I am there.

And I can tell you my EV is hugely positive against short stack players at the limit tables.

[Befolder]

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So bozlax if you lose the first hand you play or go around 3 times posting blinds how long does it take you to drop below 11bb.

And yet I see guys come in with 15bb and do that all the time. I thought the rules of the 15bb challenge were to start at 15bb and stay there.

I guess not everyone is as good as you are and can lose less than 4 bb in this challenge.

I never once said that 15 bb was a short stack, you inferred it.

If I ever sat at a table with less than 11 bb I would be a moron.

If I ever sit at a table and go below 11bb and don't reload I am a moron.

If you ever sit at a table with someone who sits at a table with less than 11bb and he raises first chance he gets, you can be damm sure the table is going for a high variance ride if I am there.

And I can tell you my EV is hugely positive against short stack players at the limit tables.

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So would you characterize most short stack players as Laggros or gamboolers then? I haven't tried to make a distinction about players based on what they bring to the table. Though if they do sit down short, I pretty much assume they'll be gone as quick as they arrived, by my own hand if I get the chance.

[milesdyson]

"And I can tell you my EV is hugely positive against short stack players at the limit tables."

there is no way you could possibly know this

on topic:

i did one of these with my hula winnings, starting at like 3/6 or 5/10. i got up to 20/40 and lost 3 big hands, moved down to 10/20, then 5/10, 3/6 and lost everything [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Ignignokt]

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And yet I see guys come in with 15bb and do that all the time. I thought the rules of the 15bb challenge were to start at 15bb and stay there.

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That would be SOME challenge. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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I never once said that 15 bb was a short stack, you inferred it.

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No, you implied it. You may not have meant to, but you did.

As Wookie has said in another thread, people who sit down at a limit table with very short stacks are almost always bad players, and you can take appropriate measures to usurp their small amount of monies. But 15 BB, or even 11 BB, is not all that short.

And I would really hope someone tries to punish me for having a 15 BB stack at the table - one of the things that are preventing a repeat of this are the more weak-tight tables.

[Smurph64]

It takes about 1 orbit to place them in the proper category and its usually LAA or LAP.

Technically, I don't care which they are, if they have position I check raise them to death and if I have position I reraise them to death.

One of us is going up 11 or 12 bb in a short period of time and I like my chances.

If they do double up most of them are too stupid to leave and give it back eventually.

If they are mice its a quick read as well. At which point you start pummelling them on their blinds.

If I sit at a table with 3 or 4 players with 10 to 18 bb in their stack its a ting of beauty.

[Str8Fish]

speaking of 15BB challenges... I just tried my luck at a 6-max table starting at 0.50/1. 6-max isn't my bag, baby. I made a video... anyone know where I can post it so that maybe one of you good players could review my play??

[Befolder]

I'd love to look at it just because I like to watch hands. Somebody find a place for this to be hosted.

[mwg47x]

Try here.

[Str8Fish]

I sent a PM to pokeravi to sign up for this. I'm struggling to get my web-page to host it... here's the linky... but I think I'm doing something wrong... I'm not a web-developer in any way:

www.engr.uconn.edu/~mjs02024

I edited my index.html with word and inserted the video (which is in my public domain folder). Does it play for you?