20/180 PS limped in and then hit TP

[AceLuby]

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True enough as far as the odds go, but this is not a pot odds question IMHO. Completing in the first place we are playing a super small pot against a likely bunch of marginal hands. Playing against a min raise we are playing in a bigger pot (which magnifies our mistakes) against at least one hand the is likely better than average.

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You are right that this isn't a pot odds question, but it isn't a 'well its so cheap compared to my stack' question either. The real problem with this whole hand is that there isn't any foresight. So, ok, we call PF because it's so cheap. Now we have the real problem. We are playing a 4 BB pot in the worst position possible w/ a hand that is easily dominated. Since it was raised, it's worse because it's a 8 BB pot now.

Also, am I wrong but shouldn't the pot be 400 on the flop?

[Jeff76]

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You are right that this isn't a pot odds question, but it isn't a 'well its so cheap compared to my stack' question either. The real problem with this whole hand is that there isn't any foresight.

[/ QUOTE ]I agree completly, and this is pretty much what I was trying to say in my original post about the hand having very little in the way of implied odds.

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Now we have the real problem. We are playing a 4 BB pot in the worst position possible w/ a hand that is easily dominated. Since it was raised, it's worse because it's a 8 BB pot now.

[/ QUOTE ]At truly weak tables, I have found that limping from the small blind with hands like this can be profitable because you can bet out on the flop (when you hit) and either win the pot or get it down to one caller who is willing to check both the turn and the river and give you a cheap showdown. It's suprising how often I win these showdowns with a weak top pair (or actually, even middle pair) when I get them. And since the pot is small, this type of play doesn't cost me much. But this only has worked for me at super weak tables and when the pot has NOT been raised, even for the minimum. And of course, when I DO hit trips or 2 pair then I can often win a little bigger pot.

However, my sample size is small so I can't really say its a good play to complete with junk in the small blind. I'd have to have a better sample size of my SB hands to see how often this happens and how often I end up betting the flop and having to fold. What I do know is that I lose comparitively little in these cases because the pot is so small, so the effect on my stack is largely negligable. And making small PF mistakes is not bad if you don't follow them up with larger turn and river mistakes.

But when the pot is raised PF you almost never get to a showdown cheap, so it is CLEARLY unprofitable to play a hand with little implied odds OOP.

All in all, I'm still usually folding unsuited broadway/baby cards and calling with low connectors and gappers.