20/180 PS limped in and then hit TP

[jus_nutz]

table is LAGgy and plrs keep on callin weak hands so far ... loking for a spot to pick up chips and complete sb ... then call raise due to pot odds ...

UTG (t1410)
UTG+1 (t4135)
MP1 (t1135)
MP2 (t3110)
MP3 (t4025)
CO (t5883)
Button (t1260)
Hero (t3040)
BB (t1632)

Preflop: Hero is in SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, MP2 calls t50, <font color="gray">MP3 folds</font>, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, Button calls t50, Hero calls t25, <font color="red">BB raises to t100</font>, MP2 calls t50, Button calls t50, Hero calls t50

Flop: (t450) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets t150</font>, BB calls t150, MP2 calls t150, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>

Turn: (t900) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets t150</font>, BB calls t150, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>

River: (t1200) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets t250</font>, BB calls t250

was my betting too loose or should ive stoped bettin on turn ??? jus dun get situations where i am in a hand after completin sb or on bb and then floppin TP . TX

[AceLuby]

Play the opposite of everyone else. If they are being Laggy, then wait for a big hand and pounce. I would fold this PF for sure.

After that, every bet on every street is really weak. You bet 1/3 pot post flop, 1/6 pot on the turn, and 1/5 pot on the river. Bet at least 250 on the flop, although I probably c/f w/ TPNK against that many players. As played bet at least 400 if your going to bet the turn. I think you're up against badly played AA, better kings, or 2 pr a lot of the time here. Overall this is a bad spot to get your $ in, IMHO.

[jus_nutz]

so u say that u wouldnt even complete bb ??? K6o against 2 plrs seems not to weak and justify 5:1 odds ... i agree on betting too weak .. if , better 1 bstrong bet on flop and then c/f on all streets

[sccrneo]

I fold it preflop instead of completing. Your hand is pretty weak.

As played, you need to bet more on the flop if you want to lead.

I would check and re-evaluate. TPBK is not a very good hand four handed and I am looking to fold to any amount of resistance.

[AceLuby]

[ QUOTE ]
so u say that u wouldnt even complete bb ??? i agree on betting too weak .. if , better 1 bstrong bet on flop and then c/f on all streets

[/ QUOTE ]

There are so many limpers in this pot that we may be getting good pot odds, but at what cost? I say there are plenty of hands that limp that dominate us (like any king) and could easily have KQ or KJ out there. So yeah, Kxo is a hand that I fold in the SB. Do you really want to play a weak hand when you'll be OOP for the rest of the hand. I say no.

[Jeff76]

Completing the small blind in the first place is fine, I think. But I'd fold to the raise, even with the pot odds. Pot Odds hardly matter PF- because the pot is not going to stay this size (nor do you want it to). NL is a game of implied odds, and your had has very little in the way of implied odds, especially since you are in the worst possible position. Even if you hit two pair it isn't going to be a monster and if anyone gets stacked it'll probably be you. So while your immediate odds look realy good, your implied odds are terrible- at best you'll win a small pot with TP or a medium pot with two pair. PF is a fold to a raise because the BB has announced some kind of a hand and even if you hit TP you won't know it's no good until to late or after you win a very small pot.

The pot oddds here are an illusion.


As for the flop, after betting out and getting called by two players I'm done with the hand. You have announced top pair and two other players have told you they don't care. If the first caller didn't do it for you, the second one certainly should. Because even if the third player doesn't think YOU have top pair, he's got to think the 2nd player does. They probably both are not calling with draws or weak pairs. And if they are, it's going to cost you a lot more than it's worth to find out.

[AceLuby]

[ QUOTE ]
Completing the small blind in the first place is fine, I think

[/ QUOTE ]

With this many limpers I say its not because we have a hand that a limper would limp with, but still dominate us. Basically, if you're playing this hand you're hoping to hit trip 6's/K6 on the flop and if you don't you're going to get screwed against this many opponents. I'm at work, but if you pokerstove this w/ some reasonable limp/call ranges and a BB min-raise range I think you will find that we probably aren't getting good PF odds, not to mention odds on that flop, in which we lead out. This is an EASY fold PF. The minraise means nothing pot odds wise (it is the same as completing), so if we were completing we should be calling here, tho I think we should not be doing either.

[mornelth]

Fold preflop. Twice.

Since you didn't and got to the fop - don't be a wanker and bet like 400, and fold to any resistance.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
With this many limpers I say its not because we have a hand that a limper would limp with, but still dominate us. Basically, if you're playing this hand you're hoping to hit trip 6's/K6 on the flop and if you don't you're going to get screwed against this many opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, in an unraised pot I think hitting a single K often is enough- or that has been my experience. That being said, you're probably right and by "fine" I should have said a "small error" because I'm not going to lose much of my stack if I call here (which I probably wouldn't do).

[ QUOTE ]
The minraise means nothing pot odds wise (it is the same as completing), so if we were completing we should be calling here, tho I think we should not be doing either.

[/ QUOTE ]True enough as far as the odds go, but this is not a pot odds question IMHO. Completing in the first place we are playing a super small pot against a likely bunch of marginal hands. Playing against a min raise we are playing in a bigger pot (which magnifies our mistakes) against at least one hand the is likely better than average.

[nath]

your weak bets are not good