The Natheism of the MTT forum (A noob warning)

[sunrise]

Good post Brad.

I think its important to recognize the attributes of different players styles, whether they are more LAG, or TAG. However I don't think you can group someone into LAG or TAG persay. I think there is different levels and that the truly great players can adjust their game given any situation.

In the long run though I think it is beneficial to be able to incorporate some LAG play into your game, because basically sometimes you just dont get the cards! Therefore one should be comfortable playing some marginal hands. I'm speaking strictly for tournaments here, because obviously in a cash game you can wait for hours if you want. This has helped me tremendously in tournaments where I have been able to go deeper where I would not have back when I was playing a basic TAG style.

Anyhow I think it is very situation specific and depends a lot on your reads of other opponents. Basically I would like to be able to switch between TAG and LAG, or perhaps permutations in between depending on the table dynamics and how others at the table are playing, and especially how they are reading me.

I will say that I think TAG is a more advantageous style to play in lower buyin MTT's in the early to middle stages, and perhaps in the endgame to some degree, but not as much. Mainly because I find a lot of the players are willing to give you action on big hands simply because a lot of them call way too much. Therefore there isn't much need to develop an image of being LAG. Also a lot of the new players in low buyins are playing super LAG anyway.

[Beachman42]

Brad,

Very nice post.

The only thing I think is worthy of adding to it actually was best stated by Jason "Strassa" - it isn't about LAG or TAG, its about playing in the absolute moment. UCLA implied this with his "sometimes I raise 6-4s UTG" reply in this thread. The answer is because in that moment his read/line/table dynamics/meta considerations ALL converged on that action at that time.

"Playing in the moment" is the single best advice I have gotten from this community.

[Ansky]

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I will say that I think TAG is a more advantageous style to play in lower buyin MTT's in the early to middle stages, and perhaps in the endgame to some degree, but not as much.

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I firmly beleive the opposite. (Being LAG is better in low buy ins)

[Beachman42]

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Uh maybe I am, my balls are awfully dry at the moment.

and fwiw I was a fan of nath before it was OH SO TRENDY to be one.

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Damn, its good to have you back! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[JuntMonkey]

Nice post. About four hours ago I was contemplating asking a question about this exact subject.

[nath]

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I'm not sure why some people are treating this like a particularly new movement. Doyle Brunson, anyone?

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if you go read a lot of my old posts you'll see that i explicitly credit super/system for tons of stuff.
it just seems that people have forgotten the value of aggression and pushing around the table, with their ideas about TAG and every move must be mathematically shown to be +EV at that moment without regards to the bigger picture of the tournament.

too busy to write a full reply now but there's a lot of things to say obviously. please don't start raising 74s just because i do until you know
1)why are you are doing it
2)that you can play it profitably postflop

that said, don't be afraid to experiment a little. phil ivey said something to the effect of: you can play well within your comfort zone, but you have to push yourself from time to time, put yourself in uncomfortable spots and tough decisions, and eventually you will be good enough to be comfortable with those.

[mornelth]

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But I think most new players are better off not trying to emulate his play. It just requires skills that they dont possess.

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I beat you to that... below in the thread [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[mornelth]

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"ZOMG 64s UTG, I'm supposed to raise now!"

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You ahve to have AT LEAST 74s to raise UTG. 64s is too weak. If you MUST play it - limp-reraising is a LOT better....

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Completely wrong advice. 64s is stronger than 74s. These hands are much better to open raise UTG than limpraise with.

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I disagree - 74s has a lot more high-card strength than 64s. 74 is also the year of my birth, so obv it must be better than 64.

[mornelth]

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betgo, can we get dinner some time? Where do you live? Do you like cats?

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I don't think you are my type.

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I don't think betgo likes cats. Or monkeys.

[MLG]

One Point about Nath's style. It is particularly suited for MTTs. Nath creates more good situations for himself by playing so many hands...and playing them well. More than that though, those situatinos continue to come up because MTT players (at least non elite ones) are not particularly good at adjusting to the whirlwind that is Nath. So, Nath increases the profitability of good hands, and creates more profitable situations with his marginal hands...while not losing all that much EV with his worse than marginal hands. Given that there is time pressure in MTTs the fact that Nath crams more +EV spots in than most players works greatly to his favor...but if you cant make those situations +EV it wont work greatly in yours.


This style does not work nearly as well in cash games, and does not work to the same extent vs. very good opposition (Id imagine Nath knows this and knows how to adjust, because he is a very fundamentally sound player). Skilled opponents will adjust fairly quickly and not fall into the many pitfalls that most players fall into playing against Nath.