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#21
08-18-2006, 03:26 PM
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Re: What do you need to call this resteal?
stevepa what effective stacks would you need to call this bet if we decide to put this guy on exactly AA, and we have let's say 86s. Basically what type of implied odds would you need if you thought the villain would get it all in on any flop, and we only call if we hit straight, flush, 2 pair, trips, or OESFD.
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#22
08-18-2006, 03:34 PM
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Re: What do you need to call this resteal?
KK-AA, push. All others, fold, and use villain's play on some other thinking player to regain the chips you lost. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#23
08-18-2006, 03:38 PM
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Re: What do you need to call this resteal?
He made it 4x BB. He also only added 2400 into the pot. He has around 6k left in front of him, and the pot has 6600. Unless he's on a total bluff, he'll push the flop, and will be pot comitted even if he doesn't go all-in before you act.
He hasn't seemed to be too loose, and I'm guessing you've been the cutoff to his BB previous to this hand, so it's also not likely he's trying to protect his blind if he hasn't re-raised before now. Given all that, I would re-raise him all-in with AA/KK/AK, and fold anything else. (maybe even fold AK, especially if not suited)
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#24
08-18-2006, 03:52 PM
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Re: What do you need to call this resteal?
[ QUOTE ]
He made it 4x BB. He also only added 2400 into the pot. He has around 6k left in front of him, and the pot has 6600. Unless he's on a total bluff, he'll push the flop, and will be pot comitted even if he doesn't go all-in before you act. He hasn't seemed to be too loose, and I'm guessing you've been the cutoff to his BB previous to this hand, so it's also not likely he's trying to protect his blind if he hasn't re-raised before now. Given all that, I would re-raise him all-in with AA/KK/AK, and fold anything else. (maybe even fold AK, especially if not suited) [/ QUOTE ] weak tight play is not authorized here. obv you are shoving AA/KK. What about TT+? I shove these too. AK/AQ shove, AJs, shove. ATs, call, K9s+, call. But then again, I'm a LAG and not afraid to out flop AA.
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#25
08-18-2006, 04:01 PM
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Re: What do you need to call this resteal?
pushes with AA KK only... sounds like Villan is conservtive.
Call with 99-QQ AKs
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#26
08-18-2006, 04:04 PM
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Re: What do you need to call this resteal?
Richched,
This has virtually nothing to do with style (unless you're arguing he's minreraising a wider range here because you've been so aggro). But this statement right here: [ QUOTE ] But then again, I'm a LAG and not afraid to out flop AA. [/ QUOTE ] shows a complete lack of understanding of everything. This is not an ego thing, or a style thing. The fact is if he has AA, calling with most hands here is awful. JohnFR, I posted a poll a while ago asking what stack sizes (and thus implied odds) people would need to call a raiser who has AA with suited connectors. This is a very difficult question to answer, especially since we kind of artificially create pot odds for ourselves when we flop hands like OESD's or flush draws...Honestly I'm not sure what the right implied odds to call is if you know he has AA and you have 86s. I would guess somewhere between 15:1 and 25:1 is the minimum. Steve
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#27
08-18-2006, 04:08 PM
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Re: What do you need to call this resteal?
Aside: Has anyone seen the British Poker Open episode with Lederer and Andy Bloch? Chris Ferguson does some commentary and a very similar hand to this comes up between Lederer and a donk. Effective stacks are like 14bb, Lederer makes it 3bb with 98o and donk thinks forever and makes it 6bb total. Obviously I'm biased because I can see he has KK, but he clearly has a monster here. Lederer calls, flop 9xx and Lederer calls the guy's 8bb push and loses. Ferguson doing the commentary basically says that there's nothing Lederer can do there, he "has to call pf" and "has to call the flop". I know Ferguson is better than me and clearly better at the math aspects of the game, so I was really surprised to hear him say this...
I'm not sure what my point here is...Just thought it was interesting I guess. Steve
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#28
08-18-2006, 04:31 PM
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Re: What do you need to call this resteal?
Steve,
I think you have totally misunderstood me. If I know for a fact that a player has AA/KK and they only minraise me, I will call that everytime, especially if I already have chips invested into the pot, because when I out flop them, I stack them. Most people cannot laydown AA, ever, so I am willing to take a gamble knowing if I miss the flop I'm done with the hand. This only applies to the minraise/minreraise obv. If I raise with J9s and then get repoped 3x or 4x then its an obv fold, but to get minreraised is a mistake to not call IMO. The biggest mistake is on the villian for a minreraise and giving good odds to out draw his monster. Rich
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#29
08-18-2006, 04:45 PM
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Re: What do you need to call this resteal?
Steve is right, if this is AA it's a pure math problem and most hands should be folded. You should call with any pair for set value, AK (because he has a higher chance of having queens and you have odds vs. kings) and lower suited connectors (because he'll frequently underbet the flop and give you odds to draw etc., plus he doesn't *always* have AA.) Fold big offsuit hands like KQ and fold miscellaneous trash.
If I suspect something is off, I push/call much more, though.
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#30
08-18-2006, 05:52 PM
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Re: What do you need to call this resteal?
RichChed,
I believe the implied odds right now assuming we stack villian 100% of the time we connect is something around 8:1 or 9:1. This means that calling for set value is the only thing that mathematically makes sense even if we know that we will stack AA 100% of the time. You simply do not flop hard enough with other hands enough to make a call profitable.
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