Angle Shooting or Legit?

[steamboatin]

[ QUOTE ]
Would anyone change your answer if the question asked was "Do you have anything?" and the answer was "I have a pair".

This wasn't what happened, but I'm curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, still an accurate answer.

[Wongboy]

If the guy had lied and said "no pair", THAT would have been an angle shoot - lieing to get the other guy to show. Correctly calling your hand is NOT an angle shoot.

[zuluking]

I've searched the archives and can't find it, but Felicia Lee wrote about "Angle Shoots" a few years ago. Basically she spoke of things that just 5 years ago that were considered legit poker practices, now were considered angle shoots by the 2+2 community.

A good example is the OP's post. This goes on all the time in poker rooms, and the high and mighty on 2+2 scream "ANGLE SHOOT" at every opportunity.

Some might consider this example an angle shoot, you decide:

On the river a third club hits. Player A bets out, Player B raises while looking away. The dealer says, "Raise" and Player B goes into his "Oh I'm sorry! I thought HE (Player A) had raised! I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to raise you there.", routine. Player A says, "No problem", and calls the raise. Of course, Player B has the flush.

Is THIS an angle shoot? According to the masses recently at 2+2 it is. I think not.

[RR]

I have read this reply, and I am goign ot have to come down on the side of this possibly being a very mild angle. Often with a pair showing a player will say "I check my pair" etc. I do not think the player that said he had a pair did much wrong. The first player was attempting a mild angle also, he was trying to avoid showing even though he was first to show. The second player's angle was such not such that I woudl give him any sort of warning. He did not initiate the conversation so there is nothing to warn him about. If he watned to be a 100% straight shooter he coudl ahve clarified that his pair was on the board when his opponent was mucking, so yes this was an angle, but a very mild one.

[Wongboy]

[ QUOTE ]
I have read this reply, and I am goign ot have to come down on the side of this possibly being a very mild angle. Often with a pair showing a player will say "I check my pair" etc. I do not think the player that said he had a pair did much wrong. The first player was attempting a mild angle also, he was trying to avoid showing even though he was first to show. The second player's angle was such not such that I woudl give him any sort of warning. He did not initiate the conversation so there is nothing to warn him about. If he watned to be a 100% straight shooter he coudl ahve clarified that his pair was on the board when his opponent was mucking, so yes this was an angle, but a very mild one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to be clear, are you saying that the guy should have responded by saying "I have a pair of queens with a King kicker"? This seems like overkill to me. He was not obligated to answer at all, but he chose to answer honestly. This is not an angle shoot.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have read this reply, and I am goign ot have to come down on the side of this possibly being a very mild angle. Often with a pair showing a player will say "I check my pair" etc. I do not think the player that said he had a pair did much wrong. The first player was attempting a mild angle also, he was trying to avoid showing even though he was first to show. The second player's angle was such not such that I woudl give him any sort of warning. He did not initiate the conversation so there is nothing to warn him about. If he watned to be a 100% straight shooter he coudl ahve clarified that his pair was on the board when his opponent was mucking, so yes this was an angle, but a very mild one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to be clear, are you saying that the guy should have responded by saying "I have a pair of queens with a King kicker"? This seems like overkill to me. He was not obligated to answer at all, but he chose to answer honestly. This is not an angle shoot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am saying he knew that by answering he was misleading the other player. When the other player went to muck he could have said "wait." I don't have a problem with him not doing that, I am just pointing out that this is in fact an angle. It is possible to shoot and angle and still not be wrong.

[nsj]

[ QUOTE ]
We both know that, while the answer was truthful, it was meant to fool the other player into mucking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?
I would never bother trying to "fool" my opponent this way. Guess I give the human race too much credit.

[notevenhere]

I have a question for those who think this is angle shooting.

Say the person answers "NO". So the question asker shows his AJ. Only in this scenario, the player then proceeds to show he is holding a Qx. Once again he has answered the question in truth. He doesn't have a pair, he has trips.

Are you going to accuse this person of angle shooting for the purposes of viewing cards that the opponent would otherwise have been able to muck?

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you going to accuse this person of angle shooting for the purposes of viewing cards that the opponent would otherwise have been able to muck?

[/ QUOTE ]

He wouldn't have been able to muck if he was the bettor. And if he was the caller he could just ask the bettor to show. And if the "angler" wanted to see his hand that badly, in most cardrooms he could just ask the dealer to show it.

[Colton23]

I think this thread is mildly ridiculous. When I first started playing poker i was in a hand where there was a possible straight on the board. I had two pair and wanted to know where i stood. So i asked my opponent if he had the straight, trying to garner information. He looked confused, and said, "[censored], I didn't even see that." Feeling all clever because i had induced my opponent to give me the info I wanted, I raised. He re-raised. Opps...epiphany...who's the idiot now? That cost me $18. Lesson learned, and well worth the price.
Poker is civilized combat. Quit whinning.