NL Hold em player wanting to learn PLO

[CallYNotRaise06]

ive been a NLH player for about 3 years now, and a plo for about 3 months. The biggest difference(and my favorite difference) is that the hands are rarely more than a 2-1 favorite over another, and that lets you play a ton more hands than you can in holdem.


A few tips i learned are

-2 pair is not good, unless its top 2, and top 2 isnt too strong either
-drawing to the non nuts is rarely correct
-you need to learn to fold the old nuts(nut flush and river pairs the board)

just like in holdem, the more you play the more youll learn.


gl.

[Silent A]

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So how about the bets - always pot like Cloutier suggests or mix it up, what do you prefer ?

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One of the biggest mistakes a PLO noob can make is not betting pot often enough. This doesn't mean "always pot" but rather in the majority of stituations on an un-paired/non-flush board PLO is a check/call/fold/pot game.

[Yads]

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Calling other peoples raises preflop or raising preflop yourself seems to be -EV in the smaller games.

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This is terrible advice, raising: A) gets money in the pot so that you can extract the maximum when you flop a good hand. It does you no good to only have $6 in the pot on the flop with $90+ left to bet. B) buys you the button and C) throws your opponents off balance since it gives you a laggy image which you can exploit once the bets get big.

[BananaDan]

Well today I read Lyle Bermans chapter in Super System 2 and I intend to re-read it more than once, some really good stuff in there.
I will be posting some hand historys for your scrutiny in the near future, once I´ve a) figured out how to work the converter, and b) collected a few hands that I find really interesting, none today since my studys of Berman have had the desired effect - me winning (with relative ease) [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

And to those of you welcoming me to 2+2: thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[RoundersRocks!]

I am not a master yet, but I want to disagree with one point. Bluffing is a more +EV move then a lot of people think, and completely essential to your game in PLO. I think bluffing in PLO takes a lot more reading skills then it does it Holdem to be successful, but the payoff is bigger relative to this. I don't know how high limits play yet, but at low-limits you can watch closely for the guys who will bet alot but hate going to the river with non-nuts and you can watch for the guy that will let go of his hand when the nuts change and you are in position. Position is everything. It's tricky, dangerous and high variance but I know of a lot of players that I watch do it every single day in my games who are all the biggest winners.
Also, you definately don't bluff as much as you do in hold'em.

[Yads]

I agree about the bluffing aspect. At the games on paradise I always see the following in a multi way pot. Flop comes something scary like 3 to a flush, some middle position guy bets out for 1/5th of the pot. This is usually a great bluffing opportunity since the guy betting out hardly ever has a good hand. If there are a bunch of folds to me I'll stick in a decent raise and take the pot down. Or if it's heads up and some guy who bet the pot on the flop now bets small when a scare card comes depending on the opponent you can frequently get them to lay their hand down.

[CallYNotRaise06]

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Calling other peoples raises preflop or raising preflop yourself seems to be -EV in the smaller games.


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This is terrible advice, raising: A) gets money in the pot so that you can extract the maximum when you flop a good hand. It does you no good to only have $6 in the pot on the flop with $90+ left to bet. B) buys you the button and C) throws your opponents off balance since it gives you a laggy image which you can exploit once the bets get big.


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youd be amazed what ppl will go to the felt w/ against you when you raise alot of hands.

[wazz]

You can bluff a hell of a lot more in omaha than you can in holdem. Or, at least I can. At a rough guess I'd say 20-30% of my omaha profits have come from bluffing.

[David Nicoson]

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What would you say are the most common mistakes that Hold em players tend to make when playing Omaha ? Overrating aces, playing 2 or 3 card hands, sticking to their hands when they hit a good flop but not realizing they have no chances of improving and there´s monsterdraws out there.. Anything else ?


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As a variation of your last point, it's easy to be lulled into thinking all hands are playable preflop. It's important to select hands that are likely to catch a redraw.

[RedJoker]

I know it's a cliche but the 3 most important things to remember when playing omaha is position, position, position. Lay down almost every hand UTG but play whatever hand u like from the button when its cheap.
If you have a strong hand in late position, try to buy the button by raising.

One common mistake with holdem players is not realising that bluffing in omaha is a large part of the game. Like all forms of poker selective aggresion is the most profitable way to play.

Overrating bare aces is bad play, aces should have at the very least one suited with strong kicker cards (9-k). Going ott wit a-a-9-4 off is rarely profitable.
It is important to raise with a rarity of strong hands preflop, if you only ever raise with aces players will get a read on you.

I don't believe you should bet pot all the time, if you have flopped a strong hand which needs protecting (e.g. top set) then you should bet pot and continue to do so provided no scare cards come. Mix up your raises, just like in holdem making smaller raises can give you information or take down a pot.

Slow play, no pay. If you have a strong hand then you need to build a pot. No hand is a monster in omaha, the nuts can change on every street, narrow the field. Checking to the river to trap and then betting will only ever win you a small pot or lose you your stack.
The last part is important so i want to give you an example. I was playing in a live E1-E2 game, i called a preflop raise in the BB, the flop came down 9-9-8 and i had 9-8 in my hand, I checked to the raiser and it got checked around. A 10 came on the turn and the SB bet pot (about 25), I went ott for my stack just over 100, the preflop raiser and the SB went all in covering me. Me and the preflop raiser turned over 9-8 and the small blind showed pocket tens.
This was when I had just started learning the game, don't make the same mistake. Don't slowplay

Personally, I don't multi-table when playing omaha, there's a lot going on between studying betting patterns to counting your outs. Some players are able to multi-table but there individual table results will often suffer as a result.

Finally, get in there and gamble, no hand is a huge favourite over another but make sure your not a calling station, not every hand is playable, or in some cases even barely playable. Remember, you don't need the nuts to bet, but it helps.

Oh yeah and don't forget about position.