Do you support Israel?

[andyfox]

"The discussion about historic rights is useless . . . We are here, the Palestinians are here, the Lebanese are here. We all need to find a way to live somehow."

Amen.

[TaintedRogue]

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You realize that the arabs kinda were there first? After WW2 the western countries felt so bad for the jews that they wanted to give them a country.. Seeing as the jews had religious roots in the middle east it was decided that the jews would have Isreal. No one really cared about the people who lived there before, and the jews (helped by mostly americans) fought with modern weapons against arabs for a country that was not theirs to begin with.

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You have to go a lot further back than WWII.

Late in the 2nd millennium bc the Aramaeans moved into present-day Syria, establishing the ancient country of Aram. They spoke a Semitic language from which Hebrew and Arabic are derived. Other Semitic peoples, a confederation of Hebrew tribes called the Israelites, settled in the region of Palestine during the same time period. Israelite religion and institutions were shaped under Hebrew prophet and Moses about 1300 bc and subsequently under Saul and David, the first two kings of ancient Israel, in the 11th and 10th centuries bc. The Israelites believed that they, the Jews, were the chosen people of their one God. They were the first ethnic and religious group to adopt monotheism (The belief that there is only one God). The region was attacked by Assyria in 722 bc and by Assyria’s successor, Babylonia, in 586 bc. On both occasions many thousands of Jews were forced into exile.

Historians know little about the early history of the Israelites, but they do know that at some point the Israelites came to see themselves as bearers of a unique covenant with a single God whom they called by many names, most importantly, Yahweh. Yahweh provided them with a law and way of life, as well as with a territory—the land of Israel—in which to carry out that way of life. Acceptance of this covenant and monotheism (belief in a single God) distinguished the Israelites from most of their contemporaries, who believed in multiple gods, a practice known as polytheism, and worshiped idols, a practice known as idolatry. Israelites often separated themselves from people who did not share in this covenant with their one God.

In the 6th century bc, the Neo-Babylonian Empire conquered the land of the Israelites and sent much of the population of its southern province, Judea, to Babylonia. The Israelite exiles appear to be the most direct ancestors of the Jewish people. During their exile the nature of the Israelites’ identity changed as they came to see themselves primarily as a religious group rather than simply as an exiled group with a common ethnic background.

Some people feel sorry for the Jews, as they have been attacked and exiled from their homeland numerous times. However, it is true that they are the "chosen ones" then they are going to have a much nicer condominium in Heaven than christians, or polytheists.

I am one who can relate to the scientists point of view as to how the universe and this planet came to being, but others continue to believe in the archaic belief of a God or Gods, which keeps the Middle East in constant turmoil.





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That is why a lot of arabs (mostly represented by palestinians these days) do not acknowledge Isreal. The arabs had been there for 2000 years before the jews kicked them out.

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I believe the arabs and jews were the same people, they just split on their belief in what god was. As I stated in the beginning, as we know it, civilization began in the Middle East, however, "civilized" life in the Middle East has been unable to keep up with the times and is nothing more than a backwards 3rd World area now; all because of an archaic belief in religion and its 6000 year old history.

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This could be discussed till the end of the world really, but I have one final point:
These kidnappings are an act of desperation, the arabs CANNOT engage Isreal in open war, there is no way. Ask yourself this: What would you do if you felt someone had invaded your country, made it their own and thrown you out into poverty. You would fight wouldn't you? Do anything to destroy the enemy that did that? Well they can't fight with conventional means so they have to..improvise.

Religion sucks :/

Excuse my bad english, it's not my first language.

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The kidnappings are the work of Syria. Lebanon and Israel had come to an agreement. Israel pulled out of the southern part of Lebanon about a year ago. When Lebanon installed their "democratic" government, they had to let Hezbollah have a few seats in the govt, along with allowing their militia to remain in the southern part of Lebanon (the part Israel gave back). Hezbollah has close ties with Syria.

There is nothing anyone can do to bring peace to that area. Carter and Clinton tried, and about a year later one of the leaders was assasinated.

I guess it's just too much for someone who believes in wearing a towel on his head and believing that there is more than one god, knowing that within 100 miles of them there is a people who believe in One God and wear little beanie hats.

[boracay]

[ QUOTE ]
Every single one of the Americans in this thread is living on Indian ground. They are called native americans for a reason. The discussion about historic rights is useless, IMO, and is usually the playground of extreme right-wingers in Israel, who refuse to give any inch of ground to the Arabs due to historic reasons or whatever. Most of the Israelis don't feel this way, hence the withrawl from Sinai and the Oslo agreements. This isn't the issue here.

We are here, the Palestinians are here, the Lebanese are here. We all need to find a way to live somehow.

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good one

[TaintedRogue]

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Every single one of the Americans in this thread is living on Indian ground.

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You are wrong! Most the west was owned by the Mexicans until we spent two years slaughtering them. Damn, did they put a good fight, even though they never had a chance.


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They are called native americans for a reason. The discussion about historic rights is useless, IMO, and is usually the playground of extreme right-wingers in Israel, who refuse to give any inch of ground to the Arabs due to historic reasons or whatever. Most of the Israelis don't feel this way, hence the withrawl from Sinai and the Oslo agreements. This isn't the issue here.

We are here, the Palestinians are here, the Lebanese are here. We all need to find a way to live somehow.

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Well please do.

[andyfox]

"Most the west was owned by the Mexicans"

Spain before that; the Indians before that.

Poster's point, which I think is a good one, is that insistence on "rights" based on historical habitation, ignores present-day realities and leads only to bloodshed. High time to move on.

[jman220]

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Do you support Israel?

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I do, I just sent them some Pizza:

Send Pizza



Edit: Telling the guy spouting racial epiphets at you on your NL table that you just used the money you won off him last hand to send Pizza to troops in Israel = +EV.

[SNOWBALL]

Israel goes into lebanon all the time and kidnaps civilians there. If Lebanon had responded to this last month by bombing Tel Aviv airport, everyone would protest. It seems that the mood on this forum is that some countries have a right to defend themselves, and other countries don't.

[TaintedRogue]

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Israel goes into lebanon all the time and kidnaps civilians there. If Lebanon had responded to this last month by bombing Tel Aviv airport, everyone would protest. It seems that the mood on this forum is that some countries have a right to defend themselves, and other countries don't.

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No kidding? Jews go into Lebanon and snatch civilians at random? For what purpose?

[Fly]

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Israel goes into lebanon all the time and kidnaps civilians there. If Lebanon had responded to this last month by bombing Tel Aviv airport, everyone would protest. It seems that the mood on this forum is that some countries have a right to defend themselves, and other countries don't.

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No kidding? North Koreans go into Japan and snatch civilians at random? For what purpose?

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To learn Japaneese...

[SNOWBALL]

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Israel goes into lebanon all the time and kidnaps civilians there. If Lebanon had responded to this last month by bombing Tel Aviv airport, everyone would protest. It seems that the mood on this forum is that some countries have a right to defend themselves, and other countries don't.


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No kidding? Jews go into Lebanon and snatch civilians at random? For what purpose?




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Trade. What else?