Super Tuesday hand - AKs

[AlmightyJay]

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Did you try to put him on a hand? It seems like you are not taking into account what he might have. Pre-flop limp/call almost certainly means pair. C/b isn't pushing this guy anywhere, whether it's a push or 1/2 pot or whatever. This is one of those rare circumstances where I would check behind head's up post-flop with these cards.

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Yes, but this player was extremely loose, decently aggressive, and his range is really large here. He could do this with air trying to push me off a hand. He could have a pocket pair. He could have a big hand. This player would limp UTG and call a raise with any pair, Ax, Kx, maybe even Qx, suited connectors, possibly unsuited connectors.

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You need to bet with a plan on that flop. I am assuming you bet a small amount so you can fold if Villain RRed you all-in. Otherwise, you should have simply moved in on that flop yourself.

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Bet 900 into a 210 pot?

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Am I reading this wrong? Your opponent only has 365 left on the flop.

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Ok I see what you mean. Yeah, that makes a lot more sense than my bet.

I eventually called. I was getting 2.5:1, knew that villain might be doing this assuming (correctly) that I'm on UI overcards and thinking I might fold, and thought that those odds were good enough. He flipped over 55 and turned a set.

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I'm not saying he would have folded here, but you maximize your FE by being the one to bet all his chips. Occasionally, donks will not realize that you're pot-committed (like you said) and think they have FE when they reraise you back. You really want to avoid this.

[stevepa]

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Did you try to put him on a hand? It seems like you are not taking into account what he might have. Pre-flop limp/call almost certainly means pair. C/b isn't pushing this guy anywhere, whether it's a push or 1/2 pot or whatever. This is one of those rare circumstances where I would check behind head's up post-flop with these cards.

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Early in a party tournament, the limp-call is more likely to be pair, suited connector, some kind of Ace, some random pretty suited cards. I think narrowing his range to a pocket pair preflop is a little much. So assuming you check it through, are you automatically folding to a turn bet (assuming no A or K hits)?

Steve

[Ansky]

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You really need to show more regard to stack sizes with your bets. Either check behind or bet bigger on the flop, so you are showing your comittment to the pot, and you won't get pushed off. I'd probably check this flop because I don't expect a pair to fold.

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meh, I think I disagree pretty strongly here. A bigger bet commits you to call and shows him that your not folding. i.e. he only puts his money in when you're beat (or has a big draw). Betting 120 and calling the push is clearly better than betting more isn't it? He may not bluff push often, but as long as he occasionally does, this play is better.

Note: I'm not saying betting 120 and calling a push is better than checking. I think that's pretty close. But betting 120 and calling a push is clearly better than putting him in or betting 200 or something.

edit: the above assumes he never folds any pair. Against most party players in this spot, I like this assumption.

Steve

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Agreed, like I said a check is better. But you are right about the bet amount thingy. I think.

[AlmightyJay]

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Did you try to put him on a hand? It seems like you are not taking into account what he might have. Pre-flop limp/call almost certainly means pair. C/b isn't pushing this guy anywhere, whether it's a push or 1/2 pot or whatever. This is one of those rare circumstances where I would check behind head's up post-flop with these cards.

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Early in a party tournament, the limp-call is more likely to be pair, suited connector, some kind of Ace, some random pretty suited cards. I think narrowing his range to a pocket pair preflop is a little much. So assuming you check it through, are you automatically folding to a turn bet (assuming no A or K hits)?

Steve

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That would be my plan. He's not folding if he bets, so I would have to win showdown with A-high.

I changed my mind (and this might be echoing what everyone else has agreed on now). I don't think Villain folds a PP even as small as 22 here. Therefore, I like a flop-check with the intention of calling his all-in. This way you get paid off by weaker As and pure bluffs. I think by betting out, you are getting hands to fold that would otherwise pay you off if you checked.

[stevepa]

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You really need to show more regard to stack sizes with your bets. Either check behind or bet bigger on the flop, so you are showing your comittment to the pot, and you won't get pushed off. I'd probably check this flop because I don't expect a pair to fold.

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meh, I think I disagree pretty strongly here. A bigger bet commits you to call and shows him that your not folding. i.e. he only puts his money in when you're beat (or has a big draw). Betting 120 and calling the push is clearly better than betting more isn't it? He may not bluff push often, but as long as he occasionally does, this play is better.

Note: I'm not saying betting 120 and calling a push is better than checking. I think that's pretty close. But betting 120 and calling a push is clearly better than putting him in or betting 200 or something.

edit: the above assumes he never folds any pair. Against most party players in this spot, I like this assumption.

Steve

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Agreed, like I said a check is better. But you are right about the bet amount thingy. I think.

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I started to write up a reply about why I think betting is better and by the end of it was pretty confused. But I think checking it through leads to us folding the best hand on the turn a lot, and not getting paid off when an A or K (especially an A) comes off on the turn. I think my default would've been to bet 120 and call the push. Not saying it's right though...I think that and checking are really close.

As another way of thinking about the bet size thing (in case I wasn't all that clear in my original post), if we're planning on calling a push, and we know he won't fold a pair or big draw, then we want to maximize the chance that his push is a bluff. So don't bet an amount that clearly shows you'll call his push. Bet a smaller amount (like 120 here) and give him a chance to bluff.

Steve

[Ansky]

Your title really should be 2006 PCA Champ.

[stevepa]

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Your title really should be 2006 PCA Champ.

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I like Quads'r'us but I'd take that also. Day 2 I was known as the guy who made quads twice. Everytime someone new sat at the table or someone came by, the guy to my left would tell the story about how this kid flopped quads twice in a row...

Steve

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Your title really should be 2006 PCA Champ.

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