Mucked hand or should I keep my mouth shut? - Page 2

csuf_gambl0or · #11 07-03-2006, 09:12 PM

helping the dealer by pushing chips into the pot is fine. However, you should NEVER ever touch another players cards.

MrDannimal · #12 07-03-2006, 10:00 PM

You don't need to touch them to tell the 84 guy "Hey, you need to actually show your hand to win the pot".

Rottersod · #13 07-03-2006, 11:01 PM

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Commerce 3-6 no-foldem holdem. I'm out of the hand. Heads up on the river and the player first to act bets and is called. The caller asks "you got the flush?" other guy says "no just a couple of queens". Caller yells "Ha! 8-4! Two Pair - I win!" and then, NEVER showing ANYONE his hand, throws then FACE DOWN on the pot towrds the dealer. I speak up and say "Hey, that's a mucked hand, he just folded". Caller says "I have best hand - I win pot! I have 8-4". I tell him I really don't care what he says he has because he never showed his cards and the the player to my left has a live hand and deserves the pot. The dealer just stood there like a deer caught in the headlights and said NOTHING until I demanded he call the floor over. Well the floor said "Well he threw his cards on the pot so they are still live and the caller did show the best hand" AFTER he (the caller) picked them up off the pot?!?!.
So the pot was shoved the wrong way IMO, however was I correct in my judgement in regards to this being a mucked hand and was I going overboard by making such a huge fuss, possibly ruining the table atmosphere? I'm usually very friendly and polite at the table but this time I had more than enough of this guy who had also been caught sharing his hand a few hands earlier with the fellow next to him while both were still in as well as talking freely back and forth with the same fellow in non-english.

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Your intentions were good - you were trying to make sure it was a fair game - but in this situation you shouldn't have said anything since you weren't involved in the hand.

My feeling is that people should let the dealer make the decisions and if they can't then it's up to the players involved to seek further action.

Side note: someone else here mentioned that he likes to make change and push people chips into pots. I'm pretty sure he is trying to get a reaction from the other players and make someone steam and play bad. It's just really poor etiquette to touch another players chips without their permission and making change not only slows the game down since now the dealer has to figure out what you did but can cause serious screw ups when a pot is re-raised after he's made change. Let the dealers do their job.

Andrew Karpinski · #14 07-03-2006, 11:18 PM

Rottersod :
Allow me to give an example by what I mean for making change. It is 1/2 NL, and someone raises to $8. There are 4 players involved.

The first uses a $5 chip and 3 $1 chips.
The second uses 2 $5 chips.
The third uses 2 $5 chips.
The fourth uses 2 $5 chips.

If I change second chip that the fourth guy uses for 5 whites, he takes back 2 whites, there is now enough change in the pot (6 whites) to make change for the two guys that called. If I do not do this, the dealer has to take a five out of the rack and change it for 5 whites.

Rottersod · #15 07-03-2006, 11:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Rottersod :
Allow me to give an example by what I mean for making change. It is 1/2 NL, and someone raises to $8. There are 4 players involved.

The first uses a $5 chip and 3 $1 chips.
The second uses 2 $5 chips.
The third uses 2 $5 chips.
The fourth uses 2 $5 chips.

If I change second chip that the fourth guy uses for 5 whites, he takes back 2 whites, there is now enough change in the pot (6 whites) to make change for the two guys that called. If I do not do this, the dealer has to take a five out of the rack and change it for 5 whites.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I understand this but it's the dealers job to do this. Just play your hand and your chips and stop worrying about trying to be the table captain. My guess is that you also tell the dealer what the side pot amounts are before they can figure it out. You think you are making things smoother but you are sowing confusion and you know darn well why you are doing it.

jba · #16 07-04-2006, 03:57 AM

AK,

RE: making change. I think the best thing to do in this situation is to give 5 whites (blues?) directly to the player you want to make change for. Then he can take his own bet back and throw you his red. I dont think you should ever touch another player's chips, ESPECIALLY if they're in the pot.

bav · #17 07-04-2006, 04:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Your intentions were good - you were trying to make sure it was a fair game - but in this situation you shouldn't have said anything since you weren't involved in the hand.

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I disagree with silence because it gives folks the impression they can do such a stupid thing and get away with it. The dealer absolutely should have been the one to stop this. Since the dealer did not, I have no problem with an uninvolved player asking that the winner show his cards... all part of everybody working to protect the game and the lesser experienced players.

On the other hand, demanding the facedown cards be mucked was wrong. Just ask the dealer to call the floor. Letting the person with 84 turn his cards over was the correct ruling in my opinion. The guy was making a claim to the pot and his cards were not fouled in some irrecoverable way...simple enough to just turn 'em over.

bernie · #18 07-04-2006, 04:43 AM

The idiot calls 2 pair and never shows his hand before tossing them face down. I'd have sat there and waited for the dealer to act. It doesn't sound like you really gave him or the other guy in the hand time to say anything and just jumped in. If the dealer tries to push the pot to the 8-4(highly unlikely if the guy doesn't show) while the other guy has a hand, THEN I'd say something. Not before. I can't see a dealer pushing this pot without someone showing something.

You kind of jumped the gun a bit here, though your intentions were good. No reason to call the floor on this one. That was a bit overboard. If the guy gets his cards back, it will be very hard for a floor to rule them dead. Your cards aren't dead because they hit the pot face down.

Would've been real interesting if the other guy mucked also.

[ QUOTE ]
this guy who had also been caught sharing his hand a few hands earlier with the fellow next to him while both were still in as well as talking freely back and forth with the same fellow in non-english.

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Now this would warrant a floor to be called or to go and talk to the floor about it away from the table.

b

tom10167 · #19 07-04-2006, 05:01 AM

I can't stand people like you. It's a 3-6 game jesus christ.
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I demanded he call the floor over.

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Nit of the year.

tom10167 · #20 07-04-2006, 05:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
AK,

RE: making change. I think the best thing to do in this situation is to give 5 whites (blues?) directly to the player you want to make change for. Then he can take his own bet back and throw you his red. I dont think you should ever touch another player's chips, ESPECIALLY if they're in the pot.

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Best answer. I don't mind someone turning player one's chips in to a smaller demoniation but I do NOT like it when someone takes money out of live bets(which are the pot) to make their own change.