Mucked hand or should I keep my mouth shut?

[johnc]

Commerce 3-6 no-foldem holdem. I'm out of the hand. Heads up on the river and the player first to act bets and is called. The caller asks "you got the flush?" other guy says "no just a couple of queens". Caller yells "Ha! 8-4! Two Pair - I win!" and then, NEVER showing ANYONE his hand, throws then FACE DOWN on the pot towrds the dealer. I speak up and say "Hey, that's a mucked hand, he just folded". Caller says "I have best hand - I win pot! I have 8-4". I tell him I really don't care what he says he has because he never showed his cards and the the player to my left has a live hand and deserves the pot. The dealer just stood there like a deer caught in the headlights and said NOTHING until I demanded he call the floor over. Well the floor said "Well he threw his cards on the pot so they are still live and the caller did show the best hand" AFTER he (the caller) picked them up off the pot?!?!.
So the pot was shoved the wrong way IMO, however was I correct in my judgement in regards to this being a mucked hand and was I going overboard by making such a huge fuss, possibly ruining the table atmosphere? I'm usually very friendly and polite at the table but this time I had more than enough of this guy who had also been caught sharing his hand a few hands earlier with the fellow next to him while both were still in as well as talking freely back and forth with the same fellow in non-english.

[Five-Star]

Find a better dealer who knows poker rules.

[zuluking]

Keep your mouth shut.

[cardcounter0]

Find a better table with more nits.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
Well the floor said "Well he threw his cards on the pot so they are still live and the caller did show the best hand" AFTER he (the caller) picked them up off the pot?!?!.

[/ QUOTE ]

He had the best hand, he showed the best hand, he won the pot.

[csuf_gambl0or]

if you are not in a hand, keep your fugging mouth shut, seriously.

are you the type to call a string raise on someone even when you're not in the hand?

someday, you gonna cost someone a big pot and seeing how this is commerce, you might get str8 jacked.

[Andrew Karpinski]

johnc :

The purpose of the rules is always that the best hand at showdown wins. Any attempt to have a worst hand awarded the pot, when the best hand can be identified, is bad for the game.

On a side note, you should always be cheering for someone with 8-4 to be awarded the pot. Your proper action is to say "Hey, you have to show your cards to win, grab those cards before the dealer takes them away".

Some (many) will disagree with me on this next point, but if I can reach I will take the cards and give them back to the player. While people may think this is 'out of line' for a player, I do many things that are somewhat 'out of line' for a player. If players are being a douche and leaving their chips too far away for the dealer to reach when they bet, I will toss them into the pot. I pro-actively make change, to avoid the dealer having to go into the rack to do so (to speed up the game). I will remind players to protect their hand, etc., etc.

The point is, think about why the rules are in place, not what the rules are. You always want the best hand to get awarded the pot.

[DDH]

[ QUOTE ]
Keep your mouth shut.

[/ QUOTE ]

[johnc]

The caller actually grabbed the face down cards off the pot and showed them ONLY after the protest. I initially suspected the guy of some pointless angle shoot (at a donkey low-limit table?) but I do realize now that I was, in fact, the a$$ by making the fuss cuz I wasn't in the hand. Open mouth insert foot - that's me!

[Andrew Karpinski]

Note, I don't agree with the posters telling you to keep your mouth shut. You should tell him he has to show.