Eric Seidel and his KK vs. AA

[Holdemphile]

This is a somewhat related idea.

I really think it would be a useful exercise for alot of intermediate level players to assign a preflop "value" in # of big blinds for 1010, JJ and QQ versus a typical early position raiser, or tight middle position raiser, or where you have raised with these hands and are facing an all in from a larger stack. I made many mistakes with these hands in that situation in the past, but I think I have largely eliminated the error of overplaying them. As an above average stack in many online tourneys, you often see this situation where you are looking at a hand where you are looking at a raise from the big stack at the table, and are basically looking at the possibility of an all in preflop if you decide to reraise with 1010-QQ and are not really happy playing these hands against someone that has you covered because 10s and Jacks, and to some extent Queens do not play well against a typical early position raiser. You have to know how much these hands are "worth" and you do not want to go broke with these hands if the chipstacks are pretty deep when you are doing well in the middle of a tournament. QQ is worth considerably more than the 10s and Jacks if the early position raiser would raise with those hands. KK you should virtually never fold, because in an online tourney, the chipstacks are never deep enough for the KK to be "worth less" than the # of BB in your chipstack, and I need to have a pretty big stack to fold QQ in the face of an all in from a deeper stack.

Obviously you have to begin making adjustments to the value of the starting hands relative to the level of aggression of your opponent, but anyone who knows they are having trouble with these types of decisions should try to figure out how much 1010, JJ, QQ are "worth" in big blinds, in an all in preflop situation. If you ever bust out in these types of situations, you should note the hand and save it for later reference.

Holdemphile

[uclabruinz]

Some of our 19 year old boy geniuses need to grow up.

Becca, regardless of your "newb" question, you didn't deserve that kind of a welcome. But, I agree with the later posters who directed you to the anthology. Studying the anthology will tremendously improve your game and get you off and running with the necessary knowledge base to be a valued participant around here.

[peterchi]

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Better than being ignored I guess. Although it is dissapointing so few people actually addressed the initial post.

Perhaps the lure of a woman in cyber space is greater than the lure of an intelligent conversation.

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I addressed the initial post before screwing around.

You're no fun. This thread could've been a lot better. I'm done here.

[MasterE569]

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Some of our 19 year old boy geniuses need to grow up.



[/ QUOTE ] HAHA I think the description of them as 19 year old BOY genuises explains everything.

[0evg0]

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Better than being ignored I guess. Although it is dissapointing so few people actually addressed the initial post.



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Why in God's name would you fold kings preflop with 12 big blinds? It's unavoidable. Unless, as adanthar said, dude flipped his aces.

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I still call. It's mf'ing KK.

[NHFunkii]

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Better than being ignored I guess. Although it is dissapointing so few people actually addressed the initial post.



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Why in God's name would you fold kings preflop with 12 big blinds? It's unavoidable. Unless, as adanthar said, dude flipped his aces.

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I still call. It's mf'ing KK.

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that might be a leak.

[Bigdaddydvo]

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Better than being ignored I guess. Although it is dissapointing so few people actually addressed the initial post.



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Why in God's name would you fold kings preflop with 12 big blinds? It's unavoidable. Unless, as adanthar said, dude flipped his aces.

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I still call. It's mf'ing KK.

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that might be a leak.

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If calling all in with KK preflop every time my opponent flips his aces over is my only leak, I'd make a lot more money at poker.

[Ansky]

Dear Thread,

There are those poker players who have folded kings preflop.

There are those who have never folded it.

Then there are those, who folded it in a 2+2 event, when he was up against Aces. It is this group of players that have the "edge" that another thread on page 1 is referring to.

[nath]

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Dear Thread,

There are those poker players who have folded kings preflop.

There are those who have never folded it.

Then there are those, who folded it in a 2+2 event, when he was up against Aces. It is this group of players that have the "edge" that another thread on page 1 is referring to.

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You're so full of yourself.

I folded queens preflop once. And I folded jacks preflop to 3 raises in front of me last week. (edit: OMG FOLDING JJ AFTER 3 RAISES, I HAVE THE EDGE)
(edit edit: It was the early levels of a tournament on partypoker, so it's closer than you'd think.)

[adanthar]

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Dear Thread,

There are those poker players who have folded kings preflop.

There are those who have never folded it.

Then there are those, who folded it in a 2+2 event, when he was up against Aces. It is this group of players that have the "edge" that another thread on page 1 is referring to.

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Ansky,

The fact that it was a 2+2 game takes 87% of the coolness away from that fold [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]