Goodbye Poker Office

[PokerAce]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll address some of your issues.

"- PokerOffice's overlay backgrounds are transparent and therefore much less obtrusive that PAHUD. Cosmetic, yes. But with PO, the overlays are much cleaner."

You have the option in PA Hud to make the backgrounds transparent. The only site this won't work on is Absolute.


"- Display text on PO are much cleaner as compared to PAHUD (and colors are also customizable)."

Not sure what you mean by cleaner. You can change the colors of the PA Hud stats and even have different colors based on the value of the stat.


"- Pop-up stats in PAHUD are great and very in depth. However, for realtime play, such detail really isn't necessary. Live tracker window in PO allows easy comparison of table play vs. other players at one time. Pop up stats in PAHUD only display stats one player at a time."

You can configure the popup window to show any stats you want. If you feel there are too many stats, you can remove them. I'm not sure how useful comparing one opponent to another would actually be.


"- Ability to track play at more than one site at a time. (although, I am not sure if this is not possible using PAHUD. I have never gotten it to work)."

PA Hud currently supports 8 poker networks (over 100 individual sites) and if your computer can handle it, you could play every site and PA Hud would display stats on all the tables. If you are having problems getting it to work, visit my forum, or email support@pokeracesoftware.com and I will help you get it working.


"- Ability to display session play in addition to overall play stats. (get a feeling of how a player is playing on a particular day/on particular table). This of course allows for a general feel of table play dynamics."

While they can't be displayed at the same time, there is a filter to show stats from the current session only instead of the player's lifetime stats.


"- Player type icon display shown with overlays. Allows for quick player type analysis. With PAHUD, you have to read into the stats. With PO, you know to mix it up with players with green icons (fish) and stay out of pots with wizard cap (eqivalent to money bag icon in PT) players."

PA Hud can display the PokerTracker auto-rate icon. Simply add it to your layout.


"- Win/Loss margin per table displayed, per player."

You can display the amount a player has won or loss. Using the filter mentioned above can display how much the player as won/loss in the current session. Though it should be mentioned that the dollar amount won/loss is not an indication of how well the player plays.


"In addition, PAHUD functionality is tied to PT performance and shortcomings. That is PT is much more CPU intensive when importing hand histories than when PO updates the database briefly after each hand completes. PO updates after each hand. PT updates once per interval and the more hand histories it has to import, the more your CPU intensive the process is."

I've personally never had much problem with PokerTracker in terms of CPU usage. I have it configured to import once every minute. However, the most tables I've played at once was only 8. I guess if you play more tables than that it's possible for it to slow things down during import.

[phu_dawg]

Seems I have overlooked some things in PAHUD. I have to re-examine it when I get back to playing this week. However, without session stats, it is bit difficult for an NL player to get a feel of an opponent's play on a particular day/table.

I'll keep you posted on whatever else I can find.

[Samara]

I have used both PT and PO.

The only thing I dislike about PT is the fact that the interface is horrible. The app looks like it's 20 years old. It seems that the developer used PowerBuilder to develop PT, so its ugly and resource waste. It would be much better if PT were like a framework, so you could have plugins directly supported by the program, build in windows c++ with some sort of scripting. That would rock.

PO: Well, the only thing I like is the interface. The author doesn't seem to understand much about stats. PO has terrible defaut stats like %flops seen (should be vpip, you can change that but you have to customize it a lot so it looks like PT and you can learn something useful from it), it has no WtSD, WwSD etc stats. So stat wise it lacks a lot. Also Java is slow. Lots of bugs, no manual, no player search function, no cursor locking on graph (so if you click on something to se a value in a graph, it just prints the x,y coordinate of your mouse. Not the exact value of that particular point, very lame).

Overall, PT is way way better. It does it's job well.

But I think a smart developer with the right design/framework for his software would produce a much better software than what is PT2 now.

[ihaveAdream]

[ QUOTE ]
I have used both PT and PO.

The only thing I dislike about PT is the fact that the interface is horrible. The app looks like it's 20 years old. It seems that the developer used PowerBuilder to develop PT, so its ugly and resource waste. It would be much better if PT were like a framework, so you could have plugins directly supported by the program, build in windows c++ with some sort of scripting. That would rock.

PO: Well, the only thing I like is the interface. The author doesn't seem to understand much about stats. PO has terrible defaut stats like %flops seen (should be vpip, you can change that but you have to customize it a lot so it looks like PT and you can learn something useful from it), it has no WtSD, WwSD etc stats. So stat wise it lacks a lot. Also Java is slow. Lots of bugs, no manual, no player search function, no cursor locking on graph (so if you click on something to se a value in a graph, it just prints the x,y coordinate of your mouse. Not the exact value of that particular point, very lame).

Overall, PT is way way better. It does it's job well.

But I think a smart developer with the right design/framework for his software would produce a much better software than what is PT2 now.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, the interface is nice and after that you complain about everything you can. So you don't like the default stats and you think you have to customize it a lot;. Well customizing the live stats is only a few mouse clicks away. You make it sound like you have walk through fire to make it happen. Okay the live tracker lacks WtSD and WwSD and then "etc". what is the "etc." Again, you say it lacks a lot stat wise but yet you mention two things, and the "etc" of course. Which bugs have you had problems with? You're correct that Poker Office to doesn't have a manual as of yet but I have had great experiences reading and asking questions in the Poker Office forums. When I right click on something in the graphs it shows me a value, are you talking about something else? I think the custom graphs where you can see how your VPIP, aggressiveness, profit, etc. changes over time is fantastic.

So basically you consider PT better because you can see WtSD and WwSD in the live tracker?

I considered telling you I prefer Poker Office but I guess everyone figured that much [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[topspinner]

When I play on sites that they both run on, I run them concurrently. I use Poker ace for most things, but I like Pokeroffices display of actions per round (raise, check....call). When you are multitabling this is real helpful.

[AlienBoy]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker office....Also Java is slow. Lots of bugs, no manual, no player search function, no cursor locking on graph

[/ QUOTE ]


I have PT and PAHUD - was looking into PO - but if it's Java - that's a reason to avoid it all together.



AB

[AlienBoy]

[ QUOTE ]
Overall, PT is way way better. It does it's job well.

But I think a smart developer with the right design/framework for his software would produce a much better software than what is PT2 now.

[/ QUOTE ]


Been thinking about that - but how big is the market?

PT definitely causes performance hits when multi tabling, and forget mining in the background. And I'd never ever use a java app like PO.

Writing a ground up app in C or C++ is quite a task, and there'd have to be a substantial market to purchase, especially in the face of two existing and well regarded apps.

For the most part, PT is "good enough" though it does have its issues. This makes it hard to justify a ground up C++ venture.

AB

[excession]

I tried boith - PAHUD is far superior as a HUD to PO2 - last time I looked PO2 didn't even show WTSD% stat nevermind more sophisticated stats like Aggression Frequency

I posted a comparison of PAHUD/PT stats to PO2 ones pointing out the ones they were missing and the consequent deficiencies in the autorates on the PO2 foums - and linking to a short vidoe clip of PAHUD in action, but the PO2 makers deleted the post as they felt it was 'advertising the competition' !

I guess they think if they ignore the elephent in the room it wil go away, but they seriously lack the poker knowledge of folks like PA Josh and AP10 who designed the stats for PAHUD and that is why PO2 is likely to remain a far inferior product for real time play.

It's a shame as P02 does look nicer, the analysis post-game is better than in PT and it would be so easy to fix, but for whatever reason the PO2 guys are just messing the HUD stat issue up big-time.

[thorn]

I own both, and use PokerOffice for the sites that it supports. The live tracker is just that much better.

[Nova442]

The real advantages for PO are that PO is realtime and integrated with the DB so that it updates every hand very easily and without so much flickering, and that PO livetracker relies on screen scraping which allows it to display:

-Real time outs
-Real time pot odds
-Rank of current holding compared to all possible holdings (like 4/523)

PAHUD has the advantage of working with the best poker DB software, pokertracker, and allowing you to use WAY more stats in your overlays.

I have both and use them both in different situations [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I don't think either PT+PAHud or PO are really optimal yet. PO really needs to work on having more stats to analyze play, and PT+PAHUD really should look into screen scraping to get stats and make things all go much smoother.