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#23
04-20-2006, 06:56 PM
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Re: Q8s in BB
Please help me here. I've read through the thread and I don't see any criticism of the preflop call. Q8s just doesn't seem like a strong enough hand to call a preflop raise - even with all of the action. We can't expect the 8 to be top pair, and if we pair the Q we've got no kicker and we're OOP. Being suited helps, but even if we make the flush it may not be good.
I really like the rest of the hand. The check raise on the flop was great. It may have even folded an A that preflop raiser was holding. Once we're heads up we need to call down - the pot is pretty big and we've got a good read that suggests we may have the best hand. 
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#24
04-20-2006, 07:06 PM
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Re: Q8s in BB
[ QUOTE ]
Please help me here. I've read through the thread and I don't see any criticism of the preflop call. Q8s just doesn't seem like a strong enough hand to call a preflop raise - even with all of the action. We can't expect the 8 to be top pair, and if we pair the Q we've got no kicker and we're OOP. Being suited helps, but even if we make the flush it may not be good. I really like the rest of the hand. The check raise on the flop was great. It may have even folded an A that preflop raiser was holding. Once we're heads up we need to call down - the pot is pretty big and we've got a good read that suggests we may have the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] Hero's getting 10:1 to make the call from the BB...that's plenty to call with any two suited. And, not for nothing, your second paragraph doesn't jibe with your first...you start out by saying that 8 won't be top pair, but then praise OP for c/r'ing when his 8 made top pair. We can't EXPECT the Q to make top pair, either, or the A or K when we raise AKo preflop. It's all about whether there's value to playing the hand, i.e. is it +EV to call?
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#26
04-20-2006, 07:43 PM
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Re: Q8s in BB
[ QUOTE ]
Think about this: he knows you know what he has. How can he possibly call another bet from you? [/ QUOTE ] Actually, could he call a bet if you're betting a flush draw for value on the flop, with two other calling stations in the pot who have shown their cards to be lower pocket pairs?
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#27
04-20-2006, 07:54 PM
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Re: Q8s in BB
Grunch
Pay off, the pot is too big and he very well may have a draw or weaker 8, you are sometimes beaten on the flop, but theres been quite a pot built up now, and I feel like you have to show it down, even if sometimes he turns over 3-8o. Even so, if you have reads on him being a maniac, even more reason to keep him honest. Peel it. Show it down.
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#28
04-20-2006, 08:37 PM
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Re: Q8s in BB
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Think about this: he knows you know what he has. How can he possibly call another bet from you? [/ QUOTE ] Actually, could he call a bet if you're betting a flush draw for value on the flop, with two other calling stations in the pot who have shown their cards to be lower pocket pairs? [/ QUOTE ] How does HE know what YOU have? He's the only one that showed his hand (and, for the sake of argument, say you're heads-up).
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