Poker bots and HU Limit

[MrGatorade]

Sure,
1st. I proved the exactness of his actions. Same exact time etc.
2nd. I proved that you can sit out and sit back in real quick and theres no hesitation at all and plays the same speed as before.
3rd. Doesnt chat or at least defend himself(He will usually say something after he sits out with me tho).

I encourage everyone to stick around and watch. I will follow the bot like I have for the last 3 weeks and others on Prima and UB!

Please if you think that what you saw was suspicious please e-mail UB and hopefully they will listen.

Thanks and if you have any suggestions on how to destroy this bot let everyone know.

[dangerous_badman]

[ QUOTE ]
for those of us who missed it, want to describe just what "proved it"?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what MrGatorade was referring to was the fact that he/she/it takes the same amount of time over every single decision, which is true. It's either a bot, or it is someone going to great pains to avoid giving away even the tiniest piece of timing-tell related information.

Also, MrG sat out for a few minutes w/o saying anything and then sat back in again, and the instant the blinds were posted perrorojo picked up the game again, in the same tempo.

I concede it looked suspect. What part of the bot's programming makes it play 22 hands and then sit out, though? That seems suboptimal.

[GrannyMae]

well, you can't play UB

The site is closed for repairs please close the application and try again later.


sheesh, they really suck lately.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
for those of us who missed it, want to describe just what "proved it"?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what MrGatorade was referring to was the fact that he/she/it takes the same amount of time over every single decision, which is true. It's either a bot, or it is someone going to great pains to avoid giving away even the tiniest piece of timing-tell related information.


[/ QUOTE ]

Its NEARLY the same time. There are some fluctuations. I watched also, but I'm not convinced yet. I am however convinced enough to know it should be investigated.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[CrayZee]

Yeah, you can write a minimalist bot and play micros, I guess, and be easily profitable. Originally, these guys wanted to do this for $3-$6 FR w/ some opponent modeling.

Even good programmers would have to go to great efforts. You have to manage all of the accounts, etc. How about start a normal business or pursue other opportunities as opposed to writing a somewhat complex bot? These are my thoughts now.

You also have to play the whole cat and mouse game once bot detection gets better and/or more serious, updating interface code for software changes, etc.

[TheScientist]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you can write a minimalist bot and play micros, I guess, and be easily profitable. Originally, these guys wanted to do this for $3-$6 FR w/ some opponent modeling.

Even good programmers would have to go to great efforts. You have to manage all of the accounts, etc. How about start a normal business or pursue other opportunities as opposed to writing a somewhat complex bot? These are my thoughts now.

You also have to play the whole cat and mouse game once bot detection gets better and/or more serious, updating interface code for software changes, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah, that was originally my idea too, play medium stakes games on many different sites, with many different computers, for many hours. A goldmine, if you think about it.

In practice, it's not so easy, but it can be done. (If the observations in this thread are correct) Luckily, the more easily exploitable full ring games are down in popularity and 6-max and NL are, in my opinion, a much more difficult environment to place a bot in.

I am wondering what methods the poker sites will have to use to protect people in the future though, it seems as if things will probably have to start getting fairly invasive (ex; taking periodic screen shots, disabling IM programs, complex analysis of play patterns, who knows.)

[CrayZee]

[ QUOTE ]
I am wondering what methods the poker sites will have to use to protect people in the future though, it seems as if things will probably have to start getting fairly invasive (ex; taking periodic screen shots, disabling IM programs, complex analysis of play patterns, who knows.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that I thought it would be fairly easy to do...esp. given our comp. sci. and programming backgrounds.

I remember the first things we discussed were complex detection prevention strategies. One of the most simple problems was the duration a bot would play. That's pretty easy to solve and randomize.

In the end, I think there will have to be fairly complex play pattern detection algorthms/applications written along w/ some sort of human verification system.

Studies on hand histories by Steven Levitt (of Freakonomics fame) hopefully will reveal something interesting.

[MicroBob]

another idea is to ask players certain semi-simple questions that they should be able to answer but a bot would be less likely to.

Unfortunately I think this could still be a problem for many of the non-english speaking players. If party (or rest of online-poker) ever penetrates the asian market that it would just make this 'conversation' method even more difficult.


But there is absolutely no reason they can't be more pro-active about this stuff.
If there is serious suspicion that this could be happening on the heads-up tables then why not just monitor those tables more closely.

Seriously, even 2 or 3 employees who kind of know what they're doing could put forth minimal effort just checking the tables (and perhaps chatting with suspicious individuals) could actually accomplish something.


Sitting back and doing nothing while the games are right in front of their faces is disappointing.
It shouldn't be too much to ask that they just show up at the table and check.

[Newt_Buggs]

Wait, so the programmer of this "bot" was too lazy to randomize the time delay on actions but programmed in chat and the ability to sit out? Something doesn't sound right here.

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
Wait, so the programmer of this "bot" was too lazy to randomize the time delay on actions but programmed in chat and the ability to sit out? Something doesn't sound right here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because it's a bot doesn't mean the human isn't watching it. It's not like the bot killed it's creator and ate his children. Or did it??!!