I thought I had the nuts

[AragornX151]

[ QUOTE ]
"unless he's a moron (which it doesnt sound like he is)"

did you even read the first two hands???

[/ QUOTE ]

He's a moron in a different way than the type who would necessarily cold-call with 57 or 25. I think this is a 5-bet if allowed, and you're usually against a lower set. He's more likely to be giddy about his set than having a straight when all factors discussed are considered.

[AragornX151]

Hand 1, BTW, was unorthodox and not that great, because he only got that much value being against exactly TT-KK, but it wasn't AWFUL or anything (though he should obv cap pre). Hand 2 was blah but not exactly wretched aside from not capping pre, are you folding given the odds on the flop? I probably raise the turn too but again, not atrocious.

Also, the "long think" is rarely an act live imo. it's almost always a legitimate decision. Which means he normally doesn't have the nuts. which means you essentially do, and he's almost always drawing to one out.

[HOWMANY]

He can easily have a straight, but he can also easily have basically any random two pair here. The question is basically whether he is 4betting any of the two pair or sets here. This is why I don't really like to post a lot of hands because there is no way for anyone to know the answer to this unless they have played with this player. Even I have played with him and I don't know the answer so it is sort of pointless.

FWIW I called, the river was a 5 and after I checked he thought forever again at which point I knew I was c/r if he bet but he checked behind with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] People at the table (Mike L and then a few random fish that thought they needed to teach me how to play) said I should 5bet and I thought I played it perfect.

[AragornX151]

I suppose it's true, and is the problem with posting live hands. Some players could easily have the straight, but you just have to be there to know which. Since he showed up with 63, obviously he could. I still like 5-betting because you get 4-bet given the thinking tell with lots of hands you have obliterated.

[AragornX151]

HOWMANY, you play a ton live...wouldn't you agree that most of the time, that long think in LIMIT (not NL) is almost always NOT the nuts, but a genuine decision from your standard fish, or no in Cali games?

[ssmallz]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the "long think" is rarely an act live imo. it's almost always a legitimate decision. Which means he normally doesn't have the nuts. which means you essentially do, and he's almost always drawing to one out.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking excatly, show no mercy, 5 bet or lead a safe river

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
HOWMANY, you play a ton live...wouldn't you agree that most of the time, that long think in LIMIT (not NL) is almost always NOT the nuts, but a genuine decision from your standard fish, or no in Cali games?

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly it's hard to say because most people don't bother thinking at all and just spontaneously make some -3 level play. The last two times I personally stopped to think were this hand: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ue#Post11018095

I was actually the villain and had J7o and then one hand in the 60 a couple days ago where I literally groaned on the river when I was 3bet when I had A6 on 8636A and then thought a bit more and decided I needed to 4bet. The ones before that I had what I knew was the nuts and just wanted to wait a couple seconds. I personally think I spread my real thinking with my fake thinking about evenly although I don't do either very often.

[AragornX151]

But you personally are an excellent player. And I agree, most players don't stop to think. but IMO, the ones who do in limit almost ALWAYS are really thinking. I RARELY see a reverse tell in middle limit games, standard ones anyway...and you emphasized that it seemed like he was thinking a long time. that seems to me to be weighing "call or raise, am I ahead or not" not "let me sucker him into thinking my raise isn't that strong by waiting 2 minutes"...

[rafiki]

If you're going to raise, at this point do it quickly. Super fast 5 bet like "you're gonna get raped". Then ask something like "is it unlimited heads up ?" to the dealer. And if he's still going bonkers, then ya, you're done [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Maliant]

He just called w/ TPTK on turn HU and is 4-betting u here w/ 2-pair? i think not, unless he really is a retard.