Overcall... - Page 2

private joker · #11 01-08-2007, 04:44 PM

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Fold preflop

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I'm surprised by everyone saying this. what about other offsuit little broadways (JTo/KJo/KQo)?

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Decent, too-passive players don't raise from the SB without hands that pretty much always dominate weak offsuit broadways.

mikelow · #12 01-08-2007, 04:51 PM

You should now change your posting name to "laydown guy."

I've been observing your posts for awhile, and it's obvious that you advocate a very tight style most of the time.

I will make the final call based on pot odds only, as not always you'll be looking at a nine.

private joker · #13 01-08-2007, 05:02 PM

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I've been observing your posts for awhile

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Thanks.

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and it's obvious that you advocate a very tight style most of the time.

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I also advocate a very aggressive style when warranted. But so does everyone else on this forum, so why should I add to their chorus? I enter the discussion when I feel players are being too loose, which I think is a bigger leak on 2+2 than people who are too tight.

*TT* · #14 01-08-2007, 05:41 PM

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Fold preflop

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I'm surprised by everyone saying this. what about other offsuit little broadways (JTo/KJo/KQo)?

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Decent, too-passive players don't raise from the SB without hands that pretty much always dominate weak offsuit broadways.

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although I have become much looser in the BB over time due to post flop advantage, this is an example of a time when I can find a fold pre-flop. Passive SB raising with a field behind him isn't a position I want to be in while sitting in the BB. PJ is right on the money.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

brettbrettr · #15 01-08-2007, 05:45 PM

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PJ is right on the money.

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pre-flop, def.

vmacosta · #16 01-08-2007, 07:29 PM

I'm never even considering folding this pf. Turn the J into an 8 or lower and then I'll let it go.

I think if you're unwilling to fold to the obvious str8 on this river, then you need to bet/fold. I'd like to think I'm comfortable enough with my poker that I could c/f, but I surprise myself time and again.

SA125 · #17 01-09-2007, 12:03 AM

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I'm never even considering folding this pf.

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Agreed. Seriously. This is limit poker. Folding QJo for 1 sb out of the BB in a likely 5 way pot is beyond nitty. If you play well postflop, that 1 sb has to be +EV for you.

Domination in holdem is always referred to as hands like AK vs AQ or AQ vs QJ. When in fact you're only really crushed when it's pair vs overpair.

bakku · #18 01-09-2007, 12:11 AM

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For DD, she was pretty erratic, that's why I added the BF on the flop lines to my description of her.

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hey barry, there's a huge difference between b/f'ing the flop and betting into 3 players on the river with a 4-straight on the board. is she really that erratic?

i'd also fold PF, SB's range is just too small based on your description of him and your position is horrible.

benwood · #19 01-09-2007, 12:28 AM

Moneyline & PrivateJoker:I always read your posts carefully because you both seem to understand the game well.

This is the first time that you have both recommended a line that I can't reconcile in my mind.Talking about folding p/f.If everybody calls the raise,you will be getting 9 to 1 on your call.It looks to me that it's worth it because,being a connector,you could flop a straight draw & wind up winning a big pot.I know that if you flop a pair,you will often be dominated,but being a good player,you should be able to get away from it with minimum damage.If one of you would enlighten me on this situation,I would appreciate it.Thanks.Ben.

private joker · #20 01-09-2007, 12:33 AM

It's definitely close, ben, and it's not like I think a call is that bad. I just think a fold is slightly better. The likelihood of domination and its lack of suitedness are two main reasons, but a secondary reason is my position: I'm first to act after the PFR without having any idea what the other players in the hand are going to do.

If I'm playing this hand from the BB PF against a raise, I'd prefer the PFR to be UTG and then get a bunch of cold-callers. That way, I have much better relative position (last to act after he bets the flop). But either way, playing a marginal hand from early position sucks compared to having it on the button.