outdoing tommy, andy fox, and maybe even TxRedMan!

[mike l.]

good read. it's at least 50-50 to come 997.

[James282]

Mike, one of the worst hands posted here in a while. Pretty tough to make such a huge mistake in LHE.

James

[Lestat]

<font color="blue">how bad is that? </font>

You'll wind up a lifetime winner despite this fold, but it's pretty bad nevertheless.

[mike l.]

what's worse my hand or newhizzles?

[mike l.]

"You either flop a set and collect a big pot or you miss and fold."

right. except i might decide to call or raise a 9 high flop. because ill like my hand all the sudden. or maybe it comes 3 spades and i have Js. or maybe it comes KQ9 with two suits that i like. or or or. and these things combined happen often enough to matter. and the pot keeps getting bigger and there's someone to act behind me and he's not reading hands as well as i was before the flop so he's raising and im drawing and big pot forming and next thing i know we're at showdown and im calling because im getting x-teen to 1 or whatever and guy shows me what i had known he had in the first place. been there done that. next hand please.

[Lestat]

[ QUOTE ]
"You either flop a set and collect a big pot or you miss and fold."

right. except i might decide to call or raise a 9 high flop. because ill like my hand all the sudden. or maybe it comes 3 spades and i have Js. or maybe it comes KQ9 with two suits that i like. or or or. and these things combined happen often enough to matter. and the pot keeps getting bigger and there's someone to act behind me and he's not reading hands as well as i was before the flop so he's raising and im drawing and big pot forming and next thing i know we're at showdown and im calling because im getting x-teen to 1 or whatever and guy shows me what i had known he had in the first place. been there done that. next hand please.

[/ QUOTE ]

But none of these are reasons to fold.

[Josh W]

[ QUOTE ]
"You either flop a set and collect a big pot or you miss and fold."

right. except i might decide to call or raise a 9 high flop. because ill like my hand all the sudden. or maybe it comes 3 spades and i have Js. or maybe it comes KQ9 with two suits that i like. or or or. and these things combined happen often enough to matter. and the pot keeps getting bigger and there's someone to act behind me and he's not reading hands as well as i was before the flop so he's raising and im drawing and big pot forming and next thing i know we're at showdown and im calling because im getting x-teen to 1 or whatever and guy shows me what i had known he had in the first place. been there done that. next hand please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike -

I agree with a lot of what you've written here. My question for you then, is....

given what you've written, it seems you'd be a lot happier calling with 66 in this spot than JJ...is this true?

Josh

[mike l.]

"But none of these are reasons to fold."

theyre reasons why the fold is less bad than it may initially seem. reverse implied odds tear down some of the implied odds when i flop a set and make a bundle and everything's happy.

whoever said this is the worst fold in a long time is wrong.

[Lestat]

<font color="blue">whoever said this is the worst fold in a long time is wrong. </font>

That wasn't me. But I do think you play too well after the flop to be using any of those reasons as an excuse not to play. Pre-flop and after the flop are seperate decisions. Pre-flop there is +EV in a call. After the flop, you'll play appropriately given what develops. The two aren't necessarily exclusive.

[mike l.]

"Pre-flop and after the flop are seperate decisions"

no