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#41
10-06-2006, 03:55 PM
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Re: Hank Azaria laying down KK.....should I be impressed?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] C'MON MAN. Richard Lee called off his entire 15 million chip stack after raising to 1 million w/ JJ. It's a completely different situation altogether than the OP. [/ QUOTE ] Just so you understand I'm not some Pu$$y unwilling to play poker like Rhett Butler, but I'm going to do everything in my power to stay alive at a WSOP FT or late stages of the ME and not get in dominated even if that means laying down KK preflop. For the record I've never laid down KK preflop in any cash game or tournament and would find it extremely hard to do so, but I'm going to the leave the door open as a possibility that one day I might do it, and if it's at the FT of a WSOP event, I won't give two craps about pot odds, I'd be much more inclined to think about what the next payout increase will be. Also here is a post from the MTT forum a couple weeks ago about folding KK in the Borgata ME, it's a pretty good example of time to consider folding KK preflop IMO http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...3006&page= [/ QUOTE ] I think we are getting way off topic here. All I was saying was that I agree with Gobbo for this particular hand in the OP. This particular guy should not have folded. I don't really see what it has to do at all with your Borgata ME hand. 
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#42
10-06-2006, 05:10 PM
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Re: Hank Azaria laying down KK.....should I be impressed?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] C'MON MAN. Richard Lee called off his entire 15 million chip stack after raising to 1 million w/ JJ. It's a completely different situation altogether than the OP. [/ QUOTE ] Just so you understand I'm not some Pu$$y unwilling to play poker like Rhett Butler, but I'm going to do everything in my power to stay alive at a WSOP FT or late stages of the ME and not get in dominated even if that means laying down KK preflop. For the record I've never laid down KK preflop in any cash game or tournament and would find it extremely hard to do so, but I'm going to the leave the door open as a possibility that one day I might do it, and if it's at the FT of a WSOP event, I won't give two craps about pot odds, I'd be much more inclined to think about what the next payout increase will be. Also here is a post from the MTT forum a couple weeks ago about folding KK in the Borgata ME, it's a pretty good example of time to consider folding KK preflop IMO http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...3006&page= [/ QUOTE ] I think we are getting way off topic here. All I was saying was that I agree with Gobbo for this particular hand in the OP. This particular guy should not have folded. I don't really see what it has to do at all with your Borgata ME hand. [/ QUOTE ] No one ever bothered to look for this hand on cardplayer so I finally did. It'd be hard for me to compare this hand to the Borgata hand without the details Mon Jul 31 17:46:00 PDT 2006 Craziness at Table 127 Kevin "Lucko" O'Brien takes a big hit down to $7,200 when his opponent flops Quads. Shortly afterwards, Hank Azaria raises to $600 in middle position. Pete "The Beat" Giordano, raises him to $1,600. When the action gets around to Azaria, he re-raises to $5,600. Giordano immediately goes all-in and has Azaria covered. Azaria has $2,900 left, and he asks Giordano if he has Aces. Giordano says he doesn't know, but that he would like Azaria to stick around for awhile. Azaria is torn on his decision. He already has about 2/3 of his chips in the middle, but he hesitates to make a decision. The cameras swarm around him, and he eventually folds the KK face up. Giordano tells him he made a good decision, and turns over the AA. Michael Odeh, who is one table over, comes over to tell him what a great laydown he made. Someone tells Odeh that even celebrities can play, considering Rene Angelil made the same laydown earlier in the day. Unfortunately, Odeh doesn't know who Azaria is, and asks for his credits. Azaria doesn't seem to be in the mood, but he does a few voices from The Simpsons, including Chief Wiggum and Moe Sizlak. The next two hands, Azaria takes down both pots and builds himself right back up to $5,000 in chips. My point was both decisions are based on folding KK when you have strong evidence to believe it's not the best hand and you are perserving chips for better spots later in the tournament. The key point in this hand history is the last sentence he takes down the next two pots and builds back up over $5k in chips he calls and loses with the KK he's out and doesn't have a chance to build back up. In the Borgata hand you are well on your way to the money and priming yourself for a FT appearance, while calling with KK when you believe AA is out there, you stand to lose close to 1/3 of your stack and jeopardize your smooth sailing to the money
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#43
10-06-2006, 05:32 PM
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Re: Hank Azaria laying down KK.....should I be impressed?
Well, looking at the hand history, it still looks to me like this guy horribly misplayed this hand in many ways. I still agree with Gobbo.
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#45
10-06-2006, 08:11 PM
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Re: Hank Azaria laying down KK.....should I be impressed?
[ QUOTE ]
Pot odds are not the end all in poker decisions during a tournament. [/ QUOTE ] True, however this situation usually only presents itself when you are on or near the bubble or some other major payout increase. Azaria's hand was way way way way way away from the money.
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#46
10-06-2006, 08:30 PM
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Re: Hank Azaria laying down KK.....should I be impressed?
Raymer folded KK in early rounds of the 2004 ME. It was a fourth raise so he gave his opp credit for Aces. I have never been in a big money tourney such as the ME. So I have no idea what I'd do. I guess as long as the call is less than 1/8th my stack I have the odds to call for trips.
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#47
10-06-2006, 08:36 PM
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Re: Hank Azaria laying down KK.....should I be impressed?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] He had correct odds to call even if he knew for sure that his opponent had aces, so it was an awful fold. [/ QUOTE ] This was not a cash game, it was the main event. He loses, he has to wait another year. Pot odds aren't everything. [/ QUOTE ] I'm guessing you don't play too many tournaments [/ QUOTE ] No I don't, and that's the point. Not everyone is a pro playing many tournaments a year. To many, the main event is an experience. An experience they're not willing to risk with such a low chance of survival, even if they have correct pot odds.
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#49
10-07-2006, 03:19 AM
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Re: Hank Azaria laying down KK.....should I be impressed?
[ QUOTE ]
The key point in this hand history is the last sentence he takes down the next two pots and builds back up over $5k in chips he calls and loses with the KK he's out and doesn't have a chance to build back up. [/ QUOTE ] And if he had called and hit a set to double up to 18K in chips, would that maybe have been the key point in the hand history?
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#50
10-07-2006, 03:24 AM
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Re: Hank Azaria laying down KK.....should I be impressed?
The opponent practically told Hank he had aces.
If the guy kept quiet, Hank would have probably called.
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