"Official" nrog guy/org thread

[Hock_]

Your earlier post was an immature slap in the face. What, you think that your question about whether we can KNOW nrog is lobbying was some sort of epistemological question? Gimme a break. It was an insulting attack on nrog's integrity by suggesting that everything they have said may be a lie. Nrog's response was completely justified. If it were me, I'd have blown my stack at ridiculous responses like yours long ago.

[2easy]

seems to me that you have already "blown your stack."

and my first post was actually intended to call into question your integrity in flatly stating what we all "know" about nrog.

if my questioning your blind allegiance to purported claims, and that your belief in these claims constitutes fact, is a "ridiculous response" in your opinion, then i think that your comment regarding immaturity would be better directed at yourself.

seems to me that you have a lot of growing up to do as pertains to naivity/due diligence. hopefully on matters of greater importance than this, you will learn to not blow your stack so easily when questions arise regarding factuality and what is known.

[TruePoker CEO]

Briefly, I could care less if the Brian and Jay Nrog Radio Show is competent as a lobbyist, so long as they work to rally public support for the right to play online poker.

I thought the article they posted in another thread was interesting, it really put them in perspective. (Why couldn't Jay's posts here read as lucidly as Brian's interview statement about their aim of raising public awareness ?) Although the interview directly undercut a lot of their claims posted here about lobbying, it gives a good read on their strengths and weaknesses .... Think of them as potentially Poker's own Rush Limbaugh or Art Bell.

2easy was not out of line. You claim "It was an insulting attack on nrog's integrity by suggesting that everything they have said may be a lie.'

Hey, I am pretty convinced that at least 75% of what Jay/Nrog said about its "lobbying" was highly inaccurate. I don't care if he admits it or not. (Given the posted Interview, I would doubt they have ANY firm hired or active to lobby anyone on the Hill. So, what ?..... A willingness to hype/[censored] in NOT necessairly a bad quality for a radio guy in a political lobbying effort. )

That does NOT mean that I do not think Nrog lacks real value. To the contrary, some positive marketing to raise awareness of poker players' rights and concerns is very welcome.



I would certainly be interested in hearing directly from Brian about what they have in mind for the lame duck session ... if the fight is still ongoing then.

[BluffTHIS!]

TruePoker CEO,

I myself, unless we are just being used to bootstrap a lobbying career for the nrog guys, don't mind another intention on their part if they are effective in advancing our cause and also in so doing don't take away from other legitimate efforts where resources might be better spent with someone whose only goal is to help poker players in this.

But if they have lied about many of the things they have said, then they can be lying about others as well. Despite what everyone who has hugged their nuts might wish to believe, there is simply NO EVIDENCE that they have done anything for the cause of stopping anti-gambling legislation except release a self-promotional press release and put up a web site.

[Hock_]

[ QUOTE ]
seems to me that you have already "blown your stack."

and my first post was actually intended to call into question your integrity in flatly stating what we all "know" about nrog.

if my questioning your blind allegiance to purported claims, and that your belief in these claims constitutes fact, is a "ridiculous response" in your opinion, then i think that your comment regarding immaturity would be better directed at yourself.

seems to me that you have a lot of growing up to do as pertains to naivity/due diligence. hopefully on matters of greater importance than this, you will learn to not blow your stack so easily when questions arise regarding factuality and what is known.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might try re-reading my posts a little more carefully before you say such inane things, jackass.

[TruePoker CEO]

"...if they have lied about many of the things they have said, then they can be lying about others as well."

I pegged the Nrog lobbying BS factor at 75%, that was a minimum figure. I agree that they likely lied about their efforts in that regard. However, who cares if Jayb admits it or not ?

I suspect that Jayb, whose arrogance is off the charts, is not used to anyone critically reading his fluff for substance. (I liked the way he went from slamming PPA's phone campaign to applauding them without missing a beat, and how NOTHING he has written was EVER wrong or even ill-advised.) I think this guy Brian is a lot more the brains of that organization, he should be their frontman.

However, so long as Nrog does something to raise the ban issue publicly, great. I had complained that, prior to the phone campaign, the PPA did nothing grassroots. The phone campaign was a nice PPA project, for which they should get some props. I welcome another "grassroots" effort. If these Nrog guys get some radio airtime, a la Art Bell or Rush Limbaugh, we might benefit.

Bottom line, I offered them constructive criticism in an earlier post. However, I really think there are better things to worry about and would welcome a decision by Berge to lock this thread, and the others, and let Nrog either drift down the forum to oblivion or stay afloat on its own merits. Unless they start to perform, forget them.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
However, so long as Nrog does something to raise the ban issue publicly, great.

[/ QUOTE ]


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Unless they start to perform, forget them.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well that's the problem. In addition to the high BS factor as you rightly put it, they haven't as yet been seen to do anything other than promote themselves. And yet so many here act like criticizing them for their BS is attacking the saviour of online poker.

And if we get through this week safe, then they won't be entitled to ANY credit for same, because they haven't done anything.

One thing is for sure though, lots of these posters around here who can't spot BS are doomed to be fleeced some day by some sweet talking con man. Con men work by playing to hope and fear, and these nrog guys realize that all too well.

[2easy]

hock to 2easy:

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You might try re-reading my posts a little more carefully before you say such inane things, jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]



im reasonably sure from your previous "level-headed" responses that this is probably an excercise in futility. with that disclaimer, i will proceed, stating that i will be done with this conversation after this.




hock, to jay/nrog:

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Thanks for the detailed response. This one and the one earlier in the thread explain a lot.
I encourage you to continue to post in the forums, although I would understand if the extent of your involvement/responsiveness changed given the reception you've received.

[/ QUOTE ]

hock to 2+2:
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I don't understand why we're giving nrog such a hard time...
Let's give these guys a break and try to help them. It's fine to disagree with them or correct them, but let's do it in a civil and productive way.

[/ QUOTE ]


hock to BluffTHIS!:
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Gullible? What exactly do you think nrog is trying to pull on us? Paranoid much?


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hock to 2+2:
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...but what I question is why people are getting so pissy at nrog when all they've tried to do thus far is block the legislation that we all want blocked...

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2easy to hock:

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can you say that they have tried to do this in any manner?

i hope that they have, but...

[/ QUOTE ]


hock to 2easy:

[ QUOTE ]
Your earlier post was an immature slap in the face. What, you think that your question about whether we can KNOW nrog is lobbying was some sort of epistemological question? Gimme a break. It was an insulting attack on nrog's integrity by suggesting that everything they have said may be a lie. Nrog's response was completely justified. If it were me, I'd have blown my stack at ridiculous responses like yours long ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

2easy to hock:

[ QUOTE ]
seems to me that you have already "blown your stack."

if my questioning your blind allegiance to purported claims, and that your belief in these claims constitutes fact, is a "ridiculous response" in your opinion, then i think that your comment regarding immaturity would be better directed at yourself.seems to me that you have a lot of growing up to do as pertains to naivity/due diligence.

hopefully on matters of greater importance than this, you will learn to not blow your stack so easily when questions arise regarding factuality and what is known.

[/ QUOTE ]



TruePokerCEO to hock, re: nrog:

[ QUOTE ]
2easy was not out of line. You claim "It was an insulting attack on nrog's integrity by suggesting that everything they have said may be a lie.'

Hey, I am pretty convinced that at least 75% of what Jay/Nrog said about its "lobbying" was highly inaccurate. I don't care if he admits it or not.
That does NOT mean that I do not think Nrog lacks real value. To the contrary, some positive marketing to raise awareness of poker players' rights and concerns is very welcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

and 2easy earlier to nrog:

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this is not to say that raising positve awareness regarding online poker is not of itself a worthy enough contribution. i feel that this, in and of itself, is of huge importance, and would be a major contribution to "the cause."
in closing, let me just add that i do hope that what you have claimed to be, and to be doing/have done regarding this legislative issue, is indeed true.

[/ QUOTE ]


repeated, in summation, hock to 2easy:

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You might try re-reading my posts a little more carefully before you say such inane things, jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]


i would just say to you, that i feel have done this, although i'm not so sure that you have extended others the same consideration.



and added once again for emphasis:

hock:

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It's fine to disagree with them or correct them, but let's do it in a civil and productive way.

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