Hand (large pot) - Page 3

krishan · #21 07-27-2005, 08:19 AM

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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB raises, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB raises, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB 3-bets, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero ...

And the questions is in addition to the turn action, did my hand get worse or better on the turn? And did I make a mistake on the flop?

Krishan

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I think I raise here. I'm not convinced that you're behind because the only hands that are helped by the ace (helped = made a stronger hand than yours, not picking up a draw) are AA, KQ, AJ, AT, A8. I don't think you were chasing on the flop (and I like the wait-for-the-turn call being last to act), so only a few hands actually improved with the ace.

However, it's a scary card for you because it has given tons of redraws to all sorts of hands. AK has a two pair redraw, any king or queen picked up a gutshot. And given a reasonable set of preflop raising hands from SB, I think he has one of those hands that picked up a draw against you. Somebody might have picked up two draws on that turn, if they held two clubs.

What about the donks in the middle? I would imagine they have either a nine or a painted card. Either way, I don't think they have you beat.

A raise here for value, even with lots of players drawing against you is a good play. I think you've got the best hand and let the river bring whatever it brings. I think I would squeeze a river value bet on any brick if it gets checked to me. Too many worse hands will call because the pot is big and their hands are reasonable.

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Excellent analysis. I did raise, all called. I bet the river and won. (I was ahead on the turn) Here is a link to the thread in HUSH and what people there had to say about it.
link

Krishan

@bsolute_luck · #22 07-27-2005, 08:33 AM

i was going to say exactly what Aaron said he just types faster [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

..."no, not really, i can't back that up". this is just a "slap on the back" for Aaron on his analysis [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

cdlarmore · #23 07-27-2005, 08:48 AM

I would surely 3 bet the flop, I think p1 prob has something like AJ, and player 2 may have a draw or something like JK, or A10 and wanted to buy a free card, lots of aggression is common at the 6 max tables. Anyways, your almost assuredly ahead in this situation so make em pay to draw against your hand, that turn card is about worst case scenario because youve filled about half of the players possible hands to a bigger 2pr, or str8. I vote for check call after the turn. I run into tons of maniacs at 5/10 6 max, what was your read for these guys?
cdl

tiltaholic · #24 07-27-2005, 09:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB raises, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB raises, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB 3-bets, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero ...

And the questions is in addition to the turn action, did my hand get worse or better on the turn? And did I make a mistake on the flop?

Krishan

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great post. thanks.

(in future, just change the limit to 1/2 6max - i know it's a trivial thing but it helps people who are learning to not have to get over that big number shock)

MacGuyV · #25 07-27-2005, 09:59 AM

I like the flop coldcall.

I don't know what to think about the turn without a read on SB. My first thought was that AK & AQ are more likely than AJ, AT, KQ or a set, but I don't know if he's 3-betting AK/AQ on the flop; though it's a possibility if he's aggressive. I think with the overlay you're getting from the 3 callers I would close my eyes and raise here and bet the river. If 3-bet, call and make a Helmuthesque river laydown UI.

MacGuyV · #26 07-27-2005, 10:33 AM

I think the turn is close between calling & raising, but is the flop that close? I'm shocked that so many of those guys wanted to 3-bet the flop. It's very similar to the JT8 hand example in SSH, which somebody mentioned.

krishan · #27 07-27-2005, 12:51 PM

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I think the turn is close between calling & raising, but is the flop that close? I'm shocked that so many of those guys wanted to 3-bet the flop. It's very similar to the JT8 hand example in SSH, which somebody mentioned.

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Exactly. If you wanted to 3-bet thee flop in this hand, you aren't, "waiting until the turn to raise" often enough.

Krishan

krishan · #28 07-27-2005, 12:53 PM

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I don't know what to think about the turn without a read on SB. My first thought was that AK & AQ are more likely than AJ, AT, KQ or a set, but I don't know if he's 3-betting AK/AQ on the flop; though it's a possibility if he's aggressive. I think with the overlay you're getting from the 3 callers I would close my eyes and raise here and bet the river.

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This is really good analysis. The idea is I'm not in great shape against the SB. I'm definitely worse off than I was on the flop. But I'm getting such fantastic overlay from the callers that even if I'm only ahead say 30% it's +EV to raise. You also are overlooking QQ and KK in his hand range.

Krishan

flyangler · #29 07-27-2005, 01:00 PM

:grunching:
6 Handed I guess the CCPF is ok given your position.
Flop I would play it the same most likely, could be up against any big pair with the SB PFR. JJ is possible. AA or KK seems most likely.
Turn you are probably in trouble (if we put him on AA) he could just as easily have KK though and I would call it down, hoping to pair the board on the river for a possible Boat.

MacGuyV · #30 07-27-2005, 01:19 PM

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You also are overlooking QQ and KK in his hand range.

Krishan

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Doh! How would you grade his turn play? I think I'd check/call with Kings; and bet/fold if not for the straight draw.
MP really overcalled the river with QJ? I guess you posted in the right forum.