$50NL 6max - nice draw

tollundman · #1 04-25-2006, 11:09 PM

UTG is a massive fish, 83/24 after 343 hands. I think he has top pair/overpair when he raises the flop and I don't expect he folds to a push. How would you play the flop?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($63.40)
UTG ($80.61)
Button ($19.03)
Hero ($80.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero (poster) calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $4, BB calls $4, UTG raises to $25, Hero raises to $75, BB calls $57.40 (All-In), UTG calls $50.

Turn: ($217.40) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero calls $3.34 (All-In), UTG calls $3.35.

River: ($224.10) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $224.10

masterdon · #2 04-25-2006, 11:23 PM

I don't love this. You have like 12 outs if your flush is good, and it might not be with that extra caller.

But what the hell, it's fun to gambool.

Yaboosh · #3 04-25-2006, 11:29 PM

Call his raise, you don't have fold equity here.

masterdon · #4 04-25-2006, 11:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Call his raise, you don't have fold equity here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Skuzzy · #5 04-25-2006, 11:37 PM

The word fish is overused, here i think it is likely inappropriate. He is very loose and aggresive preflop at least and on the basis of this hand, post flop as well. Get out of the habit of derogatory useless labels and into the habit of stating what you really know.

I guess the $3 on the turn was just an oversight. The money already in ther probably makes the push OK with 12 outs (needing 1.2:1) but with the BB already calling here some of your outs are possibly missing. I guess at least 3 6's are possible nut outs. The extra player is also an issue. The added cash in the pot is good the lower Fold Equity on your push is bad.

You also said you can't see him folding top pair so no fold equity for your push here and honestly, in tight spots like this, the money isn't coming from the times you push and win it comes form the times you push and he folds.

Say you run this a 100 times alloowing just 5% FE on your push then 5% you win $39 and 95% you break even. Otherwise with no FE you gain nothing.

ajmargarine · #6 04-25-2006, 11:43 PM

Oh man, do I hate this. You and he both have decent stacks. After he raises you that strongly, he is folding to your push pretty much never. So you are getting your money in the middle as a 55/45 dog vs his hand range. And that's not even accounting for BB coming along for the ride.

You need to MAKE hands first against these guys and then bet them. No sense in taking high variance coinflips, that may be slightly +EV. He'll give you his stack eventually when you are already made and are the 80/20 favorite, or when he's drawing dead, etc. You can just c/c this and he'll still probably pay you nicely if you hit your flush, and pay you very nicely if you hit the straight. Save this play for a TAG who can lay down a hand and isn't an ATM.

BaHorst · #7 04-25-2006, 11:47 PM

I wait for the OESFD.. not the GFD (gutshot flush draw) to go for the coin flip. I check call this.

ajmargarine · #8 04-25-2006, 11:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Call his raise, you don't have fold equity here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pffft. Once Hero gets raised, it's either fold or push. And I prefer folding.