Ethics of Tilt - live play

[Christmas Steve]

What are your feelings about using personal info about another player to tilt them? In particular, if you happen to be playing with a well-known player.

For example, if you had Mike Matusow at your table, would you make comments about his arrest or his going broke again in order to shut him up? Make comments to Dutch Boyd about his depression, or Amarillo Slim about his plea bargain?

In my scenario, this would only be done if the famous player started talking smack directly to you. What do you think?

[Songwind]

It's not against the rules.

I think it's a crappy thing to do, though. Also, one doesn't want to get a reputation with the donators of whatever game you're playing as a jerk no one wants to play with.

[BigPoppa]

I can only see myself doing this if the guy was being a real ass. So Matusow would essentially be fair game as soon as he opened his mouth.

I think that going on and on about how much money I'd made playing all the terrible players on the internet would do the trick, as he's apparently lost millions playing cash games online.

[Mr. Now]

Excuse me, but last time I checked it was my job to bring out the worst (possible poker decisions) in my opponents. Famous or otherwise. Pressing emotional buttons labeled "Tilt" on opponents is a very common and effective way to do that.

It is not polite, or sportsmanlike, or gentlemanly; but rather, effective. And it's probably not going to make you many friends.

Any 'control panel' you make available to opponents is going to be studied and used against you.

What's the issue here?

Note that being very very nice to certain opponents can achieve the very same results you intend, namely: suboptimal poker decision making on the part of the subject opponent.

[winky51]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not against the rules.

I think it's a crappy thing to do, though. Also, one doesn't want to get a reputation with the donators of whatever game you're playing as a jerk no one wants to play with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to agree. While your nasty comments might work on this player your image as a player will deteriorate with the others you play with constantly.

Thus players won't like you. IMO I have found when players like you they tend to play softer, pull less bluffs, act differently.

When I play live I smile, have fun, tell jokes, and be real friendly to the players around me. You know what happens? They show me their hands after I fold, their expressions give away their hands. They fold when I want them to.

Now it doesnt work on all of them but on many. No one wants to bust a friend unless you really are heartless. As humans thats our nature. I exploit it that way.

"hey thats a nice card holder"
"cool glasses, where did you get them"
"hey buddy how did you do in last week's tournament?"

People like it. Luckily I am very likable.

When players act like Mike M. other players want to BUST THEM to shut them up. No one likes a bad guy and all they want to do is gun him down. They play tricky, try to bluff, and so on. Not everyone but enough. So why have your opponents play differently than typical.

Even when players are jackasses to me I am still polite and nice. Other plaeyrs at the table see how much a prick X player is being and ignore my steals. They focus on the bad.

Thats my take on the whole deal.

Someone did that to me wouldnt affect me. When they have I just laugh and think "you have to go to that level to beat me? you really suck"

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
Note that being very very nice to certain opponents can achieve the very same results you intend

[/ QUOTE ]

[warlock]

I would note that this is generally an extremely effective technique, especially with anybody in any kind of support role. The decent ones get so used to being shouted at by customers, that anybody who treats them well will almost automatically get better treatment in return. And with the occasional jackass, just keep quietly and politely explaining your position. They'll probably continue being a jackass, but i figure that they want you to be unreasonable to them, so they then have an excuse not to serve you. If instead you continue to be polite, at some point they are just going to have to do something to get rid of you.

I find politeness can be a very effective weapon used appropriately, especially when wielded by a british accent ...

[Christmas Steve]

Thank you all for your responses. My instinct is to kill them with kindness, too, so I agree with the "turn the other cheek crowd".

This post was prompted by a story my buddy told me about an experience he had during a tournament at the Bicycle Club in Los Angeles. He was seated next to a very well-known actor, who was being a big-time jerkoff to everyone, especially my friend. My friend thought it was because he was seated to the celebrity's left, and kept raising him out of pots. My friend thought he could have handled it better, and was telling me about the whole thing later that day.

[phydaux]

[ QUOTE ]
When players act like Mike M. other players want to BUST THEM to shut them up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like they are the ones going on tilt, talking smack and trying to bust a "name" player or a disliked player, like this was some kind of street basketball game.

Sounds like a great way to talk yourself into making all kinds of -EV bets.

BTW, if Mike Matusow or Dutch Boyd or Amarillo Slim showed up at my table, I'd find another table. Just stand up, give him half my stack, and find another table. It would be cheaper in the long run.

Unless it was Phil Helmuth. I'd gladly piss away my roll trying to tilt him.

"So Phil... Got butsed out of the World Seried by a red-headed amature, did ya? How much did that suck? That night, the bellboys in the hotel said they could hear you grinding your teeth in your sleep from three floors away. I've got that video clip saved on my cell phone in case you want to watch it again..."

[Mr. Now]

The well-timed barb certainly has it's place.

Often it takes the form of very selectively showing 1 or 2 cards. The Annie Duke show of 1 card to Phil Hellmuth comes to mind. That amounted to pressing a button on the Hellmuth control panel labled 'Tilt' ....which she fully perceived and fully leveraged.

Got to give her very high marks in Psychology for knowing what, when, and how with that player. She definitely took control from that point on to win the entire event.