River raise, should i call?

[Peter_rus]

So you raise with AQo somewhere not in a blind. 2-5 callers/cold-callers. Flop is A83r. You bet. Single caller in the BB. Caller is average TAG at 30/60+. Turn is 9, completing the rainbow. Bet-call. River is 7. Check-bet-raise. Now what? How much must be a pot for you to call down here? Don't forget about meta-game before answer.

Sorry for ugly English.

Edit: It's about online play only.

[flawless_victory]

just to clarify, BB bets turn and u call in position, correct?

[elindauer]

Does this ever actually happen? I can't remember the last time I was check-raised by a TAG on a river like this. What could he possibly hold that makes any sense? A7s is the only remotely plausible holding after this action, but few TAGs would limp in with this hand... he'd have to have limped in after several callers, but before your raise... it just doesn't happen very often.

Personally, I think you're beat, but this situation ocurs so rarely that I'd probably call out of confusion at the table.

good luck.
Eric

[Flintoff]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this ever actually happen? I can't remember the last time I was check-raised by a TAG on a river like this. What could he possibly hold that makes any sense? A7s is the only remotely plausible holding after this action, but few TAGs would limp in with this hand... he'd have to have limped in after several callers, but before your raise... it just doesn't happen very often.

Personally, I think you're beat, but this situation ocurs so rarely that I'd probably call out of confusion at the table.

good luck.
Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

Nicely put

[Peter_rus]

No. Turn action check-bet-call.

[Peter_rus]

[ QUOTE ]
A7s is the only remotely plausible holding after this action, but few TAGs would limp in with this hand...

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Are you serious. I wrote that villain is in BB. He could defend HU with A7s, doesn't he?

And probably you run good, cause i pickup such spots quite a lot.

[Subfallen]

I think your exact position does matter somewhat. If you were in late position, this could be a value raise from AJ-AT, and that's probably enough reason to call by itself.

Otherwise, you're really never good here against standard TAG's who don't think to bluff A-high boards against early-position PFR's who bet all 3 streets. Metagame considerations: call this time, fold next time, whatever. :/

[bugstud]

I would never call here. ever.

[Peter_rus]

Hi, bugstud. Elaborate please.

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
I wrote that villain is in BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah yes, you are right. Sorry for the oversight.

As stated, I'd say that the BB is representing far more hands (A7, 97, maybe even 77 depending on the pot size, your position, etc) and will almost never be bluffing. There's just no way he is raising a missed draw, and most players don't bluff raise missed draws much to begin with.

In light of that, the only reason to call is for metagame purposes, which is generally not a reason to call at all, since at most levels there is enough player turnover, you can change your name, etc.

If it seems that he is raising you more than once every ten hands or so (ie rarely), then look him up. If he keeps showing you winners, keep mostly folding. I don't use an exact pot size for these decisions, but naturaly your look ups should tend to coincide with the bigger pots, especially if you know that he knows that you can fold a hand.

Finally, as an aside, it's not that easy for him to know that you can make this fold, since he can't see your cards. It may well appear that you were simply bluffing all the way. If you mix in the occassional lookup, he sees that you call with the ace and assues you always do, concluding that you must have had nothing that other time... of course, against the best players who can see through this, the game takes on a whole new level, but I think we've gone deep enough for now.

-Eric