River fold when first to act = Donk play or good strategy?

[LCposter]

I've recently switched from full-ring to short-handed SNGs. I'm starting at low limits ($12+$1) to adjust to 6-handed strategy. Anyway, I'm seeing this play pretty frequently and don't remember seeing it much in full-ring, even at low limits. Wondering if it's just low limit donks or a legitimate tactic, and maybe even an important tactic for short-handed and heads-up? Here's my thinking:

For full-ring, tight and straightforward ABC poker tends to work best (at least $55 and below) and being deceptive is often FPS and costs you chips.

For short-handed, bluffing and deception should be a bigger component of your strategy, right? Therefore each showdown theoretically reduces your metagame EV as your opponents have more information and can better assign hand ranges to your actions. If this loss in metagame EV exceeds the current hand EV from checking and going to showdown, then folding would be correct.

An example (little extreme, but illustrates the idea):

Villian (Button) has 2000 chips
Hero (BB) has 2000 chips

Blinds (15/30)
Hero is in BB with 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Folded to button, who limps. SB folds. Hero raises to 100 trying to steal, villian calls.

Pot size: 215 chips
Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero fires 200 chips, thinking villian needs an A, flush draw, or straight draw to call. Villian calls.

Pot size: 615 chips
Turn comes: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero decides to fire again and define the hand here. If villian calls, stacks left behind are too small (1100 each) for hero to consider pushing villian off the hand on the river. These will be the last chips hero puts in the pot. Hero bets 600, villian calls.

Pot size: 1815 chips
River comes: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

River seals hero's fate. He now splits the pot with exactly 4 hands (3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) and loses to the rest. His showdown equity based on a random opponent hand is tiny, and given the villian action, pretty much nil. However, folding may have a few benefits:

1) Hero avoids a showdown and does not reveal the fact that he was willing to raise PF, bet flop, and bet turn with 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

2) All opponents at table may instantly type DONK! into their player notes and underestimate/payoff Hero in subsequent hands.

Poll time:

[tigerite]

Your whole play of this hand was terrible, so you might as well compound it by open folding the river.

[tigerite]

By the way I laugh at how you put 'label the player a donk and move on' when you played this hand like a complete and utter donk from start to finish.

[LCposter]

I should have clarified. I didn't play the hand this way and probably never would. It's not a real hand. I was just creating an example of how one could get to the river and not have a legitimate threat to bluff at the pot, so the only options would be check or fold. At the same time, I wanted hero to have nearly zero showdown equity.

[tigerite]

Well yeah I understand that, but this is just a situation you'd never get into in the first place. The only times you should open fold the river, I guess, are if you're in the BB and know that you've no chance of winning the pot anyway. But you'd never put this many chips in with something like 32h so it wouldn't even be an issue.

[LCposter]

Thanks for the vote and reply. I could try to find real examples from play (I've seen it happen maybe 4 or 5 times from different villians in my last 20 tourneys) but I'm not sure if that would add to the discussion because we don't know what their hole cards were.

[tigerite]

They probably just suck, I wouldn't worry about it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Snarf]

I think the problem is that at the lower levels we have to generally assume that no one pays attention. (Even though this is an exxagartion, we know that meta-game stuff at the lower levles to be generally wasted time/thought processes)

If you find thinking players somewhere (limit aside) this move will be fairly transparent once they tag you as a good player. You may get paid off once or twice, but then a thinking player would likely be on to you.

I'm not gonna pretend like I've never done it to be cute and for many of the reasons you stated...just saying its probably generally pointless and if anyone who wants to make a point of doing stuff like this in most of the tourneys they play...could probably spend their time/efforts doing/learning other things that would ....actually...help them.

[MikeMcQ1]

I've actually thought about this situation for open-folding on the river (I can't remember if I actually did it...)

It's late in the game (perhaps bubble or ITM). You're in the BB and you make it all the way to the river without putting in a chip against with two other players. You are certain you will lose the hand to a show down (32o or some such terrible hand). By open-folding I think you increase whatever small chance there is of one of the other players making a play (and getting played back at, etc) because now it is heads up for the other players as opposed to three-handed. i.e. the second player to act now bluffs all-in and the third player calls BS or was slowplaying all along...blah, blah, blah)

[tigerite]

Yeah that's basically the one situation which I mentioned - something similar to that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]