Whats the best strategy in the really loose low buy-in MTT's?

[Supesimmo]

I try to follow the advice in HOH1 and 2, and eevn TPFAP, but none of it seems relevant to the early stages of these types of tournaments.

E.g. I raised to 5xBB with 99, hoping for just 1 caller; 5 people called.

How exactly should I play in these type of torunaments, where everyone seems to come along for the ride every hand?

[jaydoggie]

often times i wont raise in the early stages. i might re-raise to isolate, or i might put in a BIG raise with a very good hands like QQ+ open the pot for 10xBB (200)!

with a pair like nines i know its going to be difficult for me to make a read based decision, so i often just call and hope to make 3 of a kind.

some players recommend limping in with suited connectors and trying to flop huge and because the players are loose they will get paid off.

just remember-- its bad to bluff/make plays at a loose player (group of loose players) because your good or great hands will get paid off any way.

99, to me, is not a raising hand with (atleast) 5 players left to act in the early rounds of a low buyin freezeout. the only hands that i personally raise is AK, JJ+.

However, if someone opens the pot for 100. and 3 people call. i might reraise with less than AK. specifically, if i have a hand that i feel is better than open raisers hand range, and a few loose players call behind. i may reraise with AQo or 99 in attempts to get some slightly better hands behind me to fold, a great chance of picking up a reasonable pot preflop.

if i were going to raise in this situation, i would probably put in about 500 chips. if you get put allin-- hey it's early and youve got a chance to win a lot of chips.

[runout_mick]

Tighten up and value bet.

A table like that, I limp 99 in EP and play for set value.

[Supesimmo]

Thanks for the advice

Do you the think the key to success in the early stages then is to limp in often, and hope to hit a monster hand?

Would you therefore suggest that it is perhaps better to simply value bet hands in these early stages, and save the more complex moves for later in the tournament; assuming the standard of play will then increase?

[rockin]

[ QUOTE ]

E.g. I raised to 5xBB with 99, hoping for just 1 caller; 5 people called.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure you are taking their advice, because you make no mention whatsoever of your position with your raise and 99, nor do you mention stack sizes.

Also, these low buyin tournys you really have to play your good hands strong because the donkeys will call preflop with JTo and will not fold a J42r flop. So, play your good hands strong and try not to make too many moves on the pot. If you can sift through the first hour and a half with an average stack, then you will have a few opportunities to make a few moves as a lot of the really bad donkey are already gone and the ones remaining are trying not to bubble, add to that the size of the blinds at this point intimidates them also.

Once they commit chips to the pot with JTo, they usually aren't folding too often, that's why it is important to open/raise. Raising behind limpers is not as affective, unless you are really strong.

[Supesimmo]

Thanks again , what would be the minimum pp that you would raise with Pre-flop in these situations?

[Supesimmo]

Also, would I be better to aggressively chase a number of small pots, or simply to wait for the big hands and try and double up?

[rockin]

define Chase.

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
often times i wont raise in the early stages. i might re-raise to isolate, or i might put in a BIG raise with a very good hands like QQ+ open the pot for 10xBB (200)!

with a pair like nines i know its going to be difficult for me to make a read based decision, so i often just call and hope to make 3 of a kind.

some players recommend limping in with suited connectors and trying to flop huge and because the players are loose they will get paid off.

just remember-- its bad to bluff/make plays at a loose player (group of loose players) because your good or great hands will get paid off any way.

99, to me, is not a raising hand with (atleast) 5 players left to act in the early rounds of a low buyin freezeout. the only hands that i personally raise is AK, JJ+.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, though I would never put in a 10xBB raise with a monster unless I was sure the table was loose enough to get a caller or two.

[ QUOTE ]

However, if someone opens the pot for 100. and 3 people call. i might reraise with less than AK. specifically, if i have a hand that i feel is better than open raisers hand range, and a few loose players call behind. i may reraise with AQo or 99 in attempts to get some slightly better hands behind me to fold, a great chance of picking up a reasonable pot preflop.


[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with this. Are you saying that with a great hand (AK, QQ+) you'd call with 4 people in the pot (1 raiser, 3 callers), but with a worse hand you'd raise?

In this scenario, the % of times that:
1)the loose player has a hand that beats you
2)one of the callers of the 5xbb raise has a hand that beats you
3)more than 1 loose player calls you and your hand doesn't improve, one of theirs does

is too great.

The chips you lose will be big when you lose them, and the chips you win will be marginal when you win them. even if this is +cEV long term, it isn't very +cEV, and I think it's worth your time to practice good pot control rather than pulling off fancy plays, ESPECIALLY at the lower limit buyins.

[ QUOTE ]

if i were going to raise in this situation, i would probably put in about 500 chips. if you get put allin-- hey it's early and youve got a chance to win a lot of chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you're still talking about the 10/20 level. Raising 25 BBs with ANY HAND is very bad...I don't care how loose/bad the players I'm up against are. If 6 callers want to call my 4xBB raise...so be it. If you make less mistakes than your opponents, you'll make $ long term, and open raising to 500 in an early level is a mistake.

zip

[Supesimmo]

Not really too sure lol, just acting aggressively in small pots I suppose-is this wrong?