Two pair of Qs, MK, SB hands with which I'm not happy

Levarkin · #1 01-10-2006, 10:12 PM

These hands were at Pacific, which is very loose, and a mix between aggressive and passive, even at 6-max. I had only played one hand in the big blind before this first one came up, and everyone had called, checked a fairly rich board (a T, a Q, two-suited) right to the river, when someone bet and took it down.

$2/$4, four-handed

I'm dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the SB.

UTG/CO limps, Button limps, I complete in the SB, BB checks; four to the flop for 4 SBs.

Flop is Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I lead out, everyone calls. Four to the turn for 4 BBs. Turn is 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

That's where I wuss out and take a check-call line (the button started betting). Too passive?

Since that hand, the button turned out to be very active, often betting and raising, but never winning and or showing down a hand. Also, the BB proved willing to call any bet or raise, but kept hitting the board on the turn or river. The table had become considerably more agressive by then, and with thoroughly unimpressive hands taking the pots. It's only 10 or so hands later when I'm in the SB again with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Five-handed; UTG folds, CO calls, Button calls, I complete, BB checks.

Four to the flop for 4 SBs. Flop is Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check, hoping to get a bet out of the CO or Button, raising, and having the BB call two cold, because the BB will. Instead . . .

BB bets, CO raises, Button calls . . .

Anyone tempted to call this cold?

I'm annoyed that I got flustered by these. I suspect that the straightforward answer is to bet the turn in hand 1, and fold the flop in hand 2, but I'm still not sure.

numeri · #2 01-10-2006, 10:23 PM

I really think you can bet the turn in hand 2. No need to fear a T yet. Hand 2 is tougher. Is there a read on the CO? I'm realled tempted to call 2 cold and see a turn, though my suspicion is that folding is probably best.

Gravy · #3 01-10-2006, 10:23 PM

Hand 1 I think is OK to check the turn and reevaluate given the action that follows.

Hand 2 fold the flop.

Levarkin · #4 01-10-2006, 10:27 PM

CO was quite unremarkable in those 10 or so hands, and I had no prior read, as I don't collect stats from Pacific. I agree that I was a little quick to jump to the T conclusion in hand 1.

Chairman Wood · #5 01-10-2006, 10:53 PM

In bigger pots checking in hand 1 I believe is alright. Check with outs (4 outs to a boat) and bet with a hand like a lone top pair. Pot is only 4 bets though. Your best option is probably to bet. After you check, you probably should fold.

Hand 2
Just bet the flop.

Happydaz · #6 01-10-2006, 11:03 PM

Bet the turn in hand one. I'm inclined to call, by the way, if someone raises and then call down. Is that burning money?

On hand two, I bet the flop, there is simply no guarantee anyone else will bet and your hand is too vulnerable (if an A, K, 9, 7, 5, another 6 or 8 or even a ten falls, you have to slow down or even fold, depending on the action.) As you didn't bet the flop, I think it's close between coldcalling two and 3-betting the flop. I can't believe people are saying you fold here. I like 3-betting because it saves you half a BB when you're behind (if your turn bet is raised you can safely fold the turn against all but maniacs), and charges people the maximum amount of money for their draws. Sure, the CO could be on QJ, KQ, something stupid like 86s or a set, but it's just as likely he's on an OESD, a queen with a worse kicker or even a lesser pair.