We flop the nuts, get lots of action & a nasty turn

[Rooger]

Party $15K guaranteed tour. No reads on villain - how do I continue on the turn?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t60 (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

CO (t3000)
Button (t2576)
SB (t1440)
Hero (t2240)
UTG (t6030)
UTG+1 (t1050)
UTG+2 (t3735)
MP1 (t2495)
MP2 (t6020)
MP3 (t3694)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t60, UTG+2 calls t60, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls t60, Button calls t60, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t360) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t300</font>, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, CO calls t300, Button folds, SB calls t300.

Turn: (t1260) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero?

[uclabruinz]

Why bet the flop? One of these 5 foolios left to act will put money in. Then I would raise significantly enough to take away flush drawing odds pretty heavily.

The turn sucks but I'm glad it's the A with the Q already out there. If you would have built the pot better on the flop and eliminated some drawing hands with your c/r your decision on the turn would have been less painful.

[TakenItEasy]

check/fold. I'm having trouble putting sb on anything but a flush draw.

[Rooger]

[ QUOTE ]
Why bet the flop? One of these 5 foolios left to act will put money in. Then I would raise significantly enough to take away flush drawing odds pretty heavily.

The turn sucks but I'm glad it's the A with the Q already out there. If you would have built the pot better on the flop and eliminated some drawing hands with your c/r your decision on the turn would have been less painful.

[/ QUOTE ]

For me, betting the flop is pretty standard - I'm giving incorrect odds to the flush draw, and will get action from many hands that are behind me.
If my bet is raised, I can easily push, given my stack size.

[TakenItEasy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why bet the flop? One of these 5 foolios left to act will put money in. Then I would raise significantly enough to take away flush drawing odds pretty heavily.

The turn sucks but I'm glad it's the A with the Q already out there. If you would have built the pot better on the flop and eliminated some drawing hands with your c/r your decision on the turn would have been less painful.

[/ QUOTE ]

For me, betting the flop is pretty standard - I'm giving incorrect odds to the flush draw, and will get action from many hands that are behind me.
If my bet is raised, I can easily push, given my stack size.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stacks are too deep for lead out protection. Implied odds make draws correct to call.

[Rooger]

[ QUOTE ]
Stacks are too deep for lead out protection. Implied odds make draws correct to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think people are overestimating the implied odds on draws on these flops. If there is a single caller, he is getting 2.2:1 on his call. Given he hits his flush on the turn ~18% of the time, he needs to get around the same amount on the turn. If I have anything except the nut staight, I'm probably shutting down on this turn card.

There are many cards that will destroy my action on the turn - therefore I want to get money in the pot now.

[Spee]

This is a situation where it is sometimes better to overbet the pot on the flop, say with 500 or 600. You have made a nice hand, but it is vulnerable with so many people in the pot. By overbetting the pot, you can mess up the plans of those trying to call on the basis of implied odds.

That said, I agree with the others that you check the turn and see what CO does. I'm not so worried about SB because I have a bigger stack. But CO has enough to turn out my lights.

[unglee]

this is a must check-raise on the flop. there are 6 people in the pot, someone will bet at it, and then you can overbet the pot and commit more of your chips when you are ahead. as played, check the turn.

[bmxreed36]

As far as the flop goes, I could go either way with betting out big or check-raising, I think they're both valid in their own way. The turn is interesting though and I find myself in this spot quite a bit and I see a couple people have said to check? With what plan if someone bets? What about betting out and folding to a raise (although stack size really sucks for that)? By checking, the CO might bet with two pair, AJ, a set or something or might even take a free card if he has a good heart. I never know what to do but I'd sure like to.

[NoahSD]

I don't get why everyone disagrees with hero's flop play. C/ring here sucks because many hands fold to the c/r that would call down 3 bets, and because you risk not getting any money in on the flop. The thing about check-raising with big hands is that they're the standard donkey line with a big hand.. so when you c/r, you're saying to any half observant player "I have a big hand."

I think we can safely eliminate betting on the turn because the turn's equally scary for the hands that used to pay us off, and a better hand certainly isn't folding. If CO bets and SB folds, I think we should call because CO's betting range after you check is pretty wide. If CO bets and SB calls, we've got a tough decision, but I think folding is correct. If CO checks behind, I'm betting any non-heart river for value.