Aces and a very aggressive player 75/150

Scott Y. · #1 04-15-2006, 01:40 AM

Villain is 7x6, who is really aggressive + tenacious on all streets but definitely a thinking player. I considered this a WA/WB situation (more ahead than behind), but I can't help feeling there's a missed raise somewhere.

FWIW I don't know his turn 3-bet range here vs. a raise (can anyone help with this?), which has a lot to do with my decision. Also for those w/ experience, does capping the flop help him get away from a worse hand? How often is he bluffing w/ a pure low hand?

PokerStars 75/150 Omaha/8 (3 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

neverforgetlol · #2 04-15-2006, 02:51 AM

how about reraising preflop? AAxx suited is a very strong hand HU i'd say.

wiseheart · #3 04-15-2006, 01:02 PM

what is 7x6 is a good player, I figure
he has a 2 here, cause I can't imagine him
doing that 3bet with just AK or something.
Although he does make some pretty imaginative
plays. I say fold to the 3bet, but im interested
in the results.

TxRedMan · #4 04-15-2006, 06:32 PM

Scott-

Let's assume the button is on a steal here.

SB calls with what range? Any A-2, surely. Probably any three wheel cards and hands like big connected pairs, etc. Lots of hands with aces, too.

I'd really like to know who the button was in this hand, though, because it would effect my analysis going forward.

IMO, I think the ideal play here is to cap the flop, and take a free card if checked to on the turn, but I'd also fold to a bet on the turn if it was capped on the flop.

That way you save 1 SB when you're behind.

As played, I think you made a questionable call on the turn. Depending on what his numbers were, I'm likely to release this hand here because of the way it played out PF. I think his range here is either xxx2, KKxx, or a pure bluff.

Since you called the turn, calling the river is a given, hoping that he doesnt have a two way monster.

But again, I like a cap PF-fold to turn bet-take free card if checked to and then call a bet on the river.

GL

-Tex

benwood · #5 04-15-2006, 09:51 PM

Scott,I normally play in live Omaha games only in rhe 6/12 to 20/40 range with a little 30/60(kill pots,mostly).I am a winning player in these games,but I don't know whether I qualify as an experienced player or not in your frame of reference.At any rate,here are some thoughts,for what they're worth.

If you cap the flop,this probably will not make him think that you have a stronger hand than just calling the 3 bet because flop capping followed by checking behind on the turn is an extremely well known ploy even in low limit games(as you know).In fact,calling the turn bet may look stronger to a thinking player because he you may be wanting for him to bet the turn into him so that you can get in a turn raise.

So,when he bets out on the turn,this bet is a probe,among other things.A raise by you will now confirm to him that you have a deuce & a call will represent a K holding or worse.

This analysis still doesn't tell us what to do after the turn,& I'm not sure yet what the proper play to continue with is.Calling it down like you did is a strong line,imo because if this aggressive player has only a K,or especially a low type bluff hand,you probably get a higher EV by letting him continue to bet into you,including bluffing a busted low draw on the river.Also,if he checks the river with a K,he will probably pay you off when you bet the river.

One advantage to raising the turn would be to make him pay if he's betting a low draw,but this is not as likely of a scenario as him holding a K,imo.

At this point,I'm not sure what is the best way to play this interesting hand,but I lean toward thinking that the line that you took is the best one.

gergery · #6 04-15-2006, 10:57 PM

high stakes shorthanded poker is all about playing player and recent history over last 20 hands etc. So hard to give good advice.

Generally speaking button should be opening quite a few hands here if he's good, and because of that you should be 3-betting quite a few hands. If 3-betting means to your opponents that you have A2,AA then you're not 3-betting a wide enough range. So my default line is 3-bet preflop.

On that flop, most of the time neither of you are dealt 2xxx with 2 on board and it doesn't get much better of a bluffing board than that, so its a little bit of a game of chicken. You're behind 2x and KK but ahead of Kx so how often is he taking that line with Kx -- probably quite a bit if aggro.

-g

Scott Y. · #7 04-16-2006, 01:33 AM

OK, thanks everyone. Here's my thinking by street:

1) Preflop. I consider a 3-bet here to be a mistake. I usually have an equity edge, but building a big pot out of position with this hand is a postflop disaster for a ton of reasons. It is much easier to call and (typically) attempt to get heads-up on a good board or otherwise play poker. With Button opening at 50%+ of hands and SB playing many hands also (I imagine both will play the obvious plus wrap-ish low/middle cards and high/low hands like 36KJ), I'd much rather 3-bet hands that are easier to play postflop "as is." This sometimes includes weak-ish stuff like A4K9 and 2456, depending on the tempo of the game, but will rarely/never be 'high' hands (unless premium) when it is going to be 3-way.

Also worth noting is that SB would most likely 3-bet at least the top 30-40% of his hands from this spot, so his range is skewed towards low/middle and high cards.

2) Flop. This is a terrific board for my hand. Now, my opponent is hyper-aggressive and has a huge range here, which includes the very best (kings full) and very worst (raw backdoor low draw) hands. He will continue to push with any hand that can conceivably win (i.e. at SD, by bluffing me out, etc.). Against this guy, a flop fold is terrible. Just as bad, however, is revealing my hand and allowing him to fold. If I cap, I worry that it may allow him to get away from a blank turn or missed river that he would've fired at had I showed resistance earlier. So I call. Again, this is a judgment call and I don't know my opponent inside-and-out. Mimicking a bluff+low draw this way cannot be too bad, I think.

3) Turn. I really wanted to raise this card, but what happens when I'm 3-bet? Against villain I would never feel comfortable folding there (it might be something like K+low draw), although folding out a better low draw would be a huge victory. I think I dropped the ball here, lacking a good read on my opponents' aggression. I doubt it can be that bad to raise and calldown vs. a 3-bet given how I now perceive his range.

4) River. This is another street I could potentially raise. My hand isn't impossible to scoop, however, but now any king + decent low may 3-bet (as will all scoop hands) so I still have to make the call.

Anyway, I feel like I did OK here, but with more intimiate knowledge of the situation + my opponent I wonder if an extra equity bet might have been possible on the turn with a raise. I'm sort of hoping that someone with experience vs. this player can shed some light on this.

wiseheart · #8 04-16-2006, 07:43 AM

I don't have enough hands against him to
know his line, but like you said he is very
aggro, I played him in the 30/60 game and he
would often do this kind of betting with junk
or poor draws, but he is a winning player so
he must have an idea on what cards he thinks
you have? Personally, Ive tried to mimic his
style of getting aggro with some weaker hands
to mix it up, and it seems to work.