Limit player trys some NL

[POKhER]

Hi all,

New to this section, i'm a 6max Limit player(0.01/.02 worked up to $2/4 and $3/6 from $10deposit).

Anyhow i'm looking to get into NL as it looks interesting & i've got a few books on the subject in my poker libary(HOH1, HOH2, NL/PL).

As i predominantly play 6-max i think i'll be keeping to 6max NL games however i'd like confirmation on a few assumptions:

NL 6max, like limit 6max - We play more marginal hands?
Games are more aggressive?
Fishy or not as fishy as full ring?


Also as i've already learnt limit and know how i learn best i'm looking for the following items:
NL Odds chart & any beginner posts(I'm checking out the FAQ as i type this).

I started the NL challenge in late march on my site RoadToTheBigGame "NL Challenge" ($40 to $10 000 after seeing a post on this forum.)

However i wonder if my Nl Challenge is time wasting. Will i learn much from 0.01/.02 games or are they just a "Noob fest". I'm willing to put $500 into NL if needs be but as with my limit journey, the lessons learnt at low stakes arn't as costly yet just as effective. Stick to NL$2? or try NL$25 party?

Look forward to posting in this section and learning NL - All help & guidance is appreciated.

[Fishmonger]

6 max is the ultimate fishfest. Play more hands, and play them aggressively, especially in late position. Start reading the old digests (fimbulwinters posts are classic and for all time). Personally, I'd say the first thing you should get used to is betting the right amount. Generally, raise to 4BB+1 per limper preflop and bet the pot on the flop and turn. Fold top pair to a checkraise, and fastplay anything weaker than a full house (and usually fastplay those as well).

If you're willing to deposit 500 then just start at Party 25NL, a retarded monkey with brain damage could beat that game (even I'm a winner there). Post hands and read posts, even if you don't reply consider what you would do and why.

[POKhER]

Cheers,
yeh im debating going to NL$25.... Maybe ill do that once i've finished reading HOH NL/PL?

Is HOH considered the bible in this forum?

Interms of preflop i'm lost, i assume speculative hands are good in NL? However arnt the rules of Nl pretty much "Dont let draws have odds" so does 67s still kind of suck?

Ah i guess it will become clearer as i read more of HOH, so ill prioritise that before posting stupid questions.

[Fishmonger]

I haven't actually read any books except SS2 (by the way, at SSNL, you need Doyle's advice like a hole in the head). HOH1 is supposed to be quite good, but it advocates weak betting because it's a tournament book. NL/PL is supposed to be the book that applies best to these games.

Interms of speculative hands, small pocket pairs are gold. Many posters here raise any PP from any position in 6max. This is because aggression wins so much at 6max. Facing a raise, call for up to 10% of the effective stack with small pocket pairs, and usually dump them if you miss your set.

Suited connectors are good speculative hands but nowhere near as good as PP's. First in, raise them in late position, or limp if there are other limpers. Dump them in early position or facing a raise in the blinds, because often you'll just flop a draw, and playing draws OOP sucks. Facing a raise in position, you can call, but less liberally than with PP's, maybe up to 5% of the effective stack.

I am not even close to being an expert, so I hope you get some responses from better players than me.

[Dan Bitel]

Hi POKhER,

welcome to SSNL.

I've not read HOH, but I'm told its not too great as it's a tourny book. I recommend you read super system. Although a lot of the advice doesn't apply to SSNL games, it will give you a good idea of what hands to play, and the sort of aggression that is needed.

As fishmonger says, read all of fim's posts in the FAQ and try and read a few of the posts in the digest.

Now, I've never played limit (hopefully the grunch can give you some more advice, or *cough* start a thread about limit players coming over to NL *cough*) but i think I can tell a few of their big mistakes by reading their posts.

1) They don't understand Implied odds. Small PP are a goldmine in SSNL. Try and see a cheap flop with them, and then if you flop a set, try and get a donk with top pair all in.

2) Top pair hands. These hands severly go down in value in NL. KJo is a weak hand. I'd MUCH rather call a small raise with 67s than KJo.

3) Betting amounts. Preflop, raise 4xBB + 1BB for every limper. If it's already been raised, raise about 3 times the amount. On the flop, potting it is usually best, on the turn 2/3 pot, and on the river 1/2 - full pot.

4) C/R. Limit players seem to love C/R. It's not nearly so great at NL. If you have a marginal hand, you're committing a lot of chips. If you have a monster, it tends to scare them off. See my pooh-bah post for a discussion about C/R.

I suggest that $25NL is a good place to start. Post some hands you have trouble with

[therockofgibraltar]

How important is isolation raises in NL? In SH-limit I used to do it all the time.

[Dan Bitel]

[ QUOTE ]
How important is isolation raises in NL? In SH-limit I used to do it all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

not very

[Brettster]

[ QUOTE ]
6 max is the ultimate fishfest. Play more hands, and play them aggressively, especially in late position. Start reading the old digests (fimbulwinters posts are classic and for all time). Personally, I'd say the first thing you should get used to is betting the right amount. Generally, raise to 4BB+1 per limper preflop and bet the pot on the flop and turn. Fold top pair to a checkraise, and fastplay anything weaker than a full house (and usually fastplay those as well).

If you're willing to deposit 500 then just start at Party 25NL, a retarded monkey with brain damage could beat that game (even I'm a winner there). Post hands and read posts, even if you don't reply consider what you would do and why.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm beating 25NL right now for 6.5PTbb/100 and that dosent make me feel good about moving up if thats easy (monkey with brain damage) At what level does it start to get tough?

[POKhER]

Thanks for the feedback all, some informative posts confirming some assumptions & proving im wrong on other things.


About speculative hands, Isn't Nl about NOT giving your opponent odds to draw so im suprised these dont go down in value?

Is this because (good players) will call on the basis of the size of your stack therefore using implied odds more so than their pot odds for their draw?(I.e. gutshot straight getting 5:1 but if i hit im sure ill stack him for 20+BB's).

And when im chasing draws, is the assumption because bad players WILL give me free cards or the odds to draw anyhow?

Also can you confirm the basic question of, what is a PTBB? half a BB in limit?

[Lifthanger]

[ QUOTE ]

Also can you confirm the basic question of, what is a PTBB? half a BB in limit?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's 2 x bigblind.