KK with 3bb raise and 1 call in front.

JC_Saves · #1 01-09-2006, 02:58 PM

20$ 180 PS tourney 70 left ave 3600 or so

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP1 (t3359)
Hero (t2115)
MP3 (t3610)
CO (t4170)
Button (t2025)
SB (t1077)
BB (t2465)
UTG (t2765)
UTG+1 (t2185)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t600, 1 fold, MP1 calls t600, Hero ?

is this an easy push or would you even consider folding this? the initial raise could be anything. I did not take the call to be something to worry about as it would be a terrible play in my mind to just call with AA, but I suppose it could happen.

With KK in this situation do you not have to play as if you have the best hand given this betting?

mic_check12 · #2 01-09-2006, 03:01 PM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

seke2 · #3 01-09-2006, 03:06 PM

Pushhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Make any weak aces take the worst of it if they want in now. Your stack isn't big enough relative to the original raise to do anything else. If you actually considered folding this in a low-stakes online tournament with an M under 10, that's a bigtime leak.

whynot? · #4 01-09-2006, 03:08 PM

depends on how cute you want to be

to me this is either a push and try to take it or a call and push the flop as long as an ace doesnt flop. i'll do that sometimes do that but with two callers id rather isolate - therefore push it

Dave D · #5 01-09-2006, 03:08 PM

you can't flat call 30% of your stack here.

If you fold, you also check under your bed every night to make sure there are no monsters.

UTG's raise is standard for a lot of hands, in fact the fact that it's 4x says to me it's not aces b/c he's trying to protect something (ie wants to make sure he doesn't get a lot of callers).

My dog would make this push in his sleep. He sleeps a lot though. If they fold you just increased your stack by 50%, hopefully one calls and you get to destroy QQ or something. Any raise would be just dumb as you're committed to a push anyway.

RichC. · #6 01-09-2006, 03:15 PM

Why I reply is beyond me but.........PUSH PUSH PUSH....get the idea? You have the 2nd best starting hand, why would you consider folding as an option PF? If you run into AA, so be it, youre 18%. This is almost an example of a squeeze play and the gap concept rolled into one. If only MP1 had raised the UTG bet. You could just reraise, but that pot commits you anyway with 1/2 your stack in so might as well push and pray no aces show up. This is a no brainer.

JC_Saves · #7 01-09-2006, 03:24 PM

Well, I didn't really consider pushing, first off. It was more of a question of how much to reraise, because I was definitely reraising, and yes, I pushed all in because I felt that I was ahead of both of them given the betting and the fact I have KK.

I was more curious if people basically treat KK as though they have AA preflop under 99% of the circumstances out there?

registrar · #8 01-09-2006, 03:28 PM

Yes, though I'm less likely to limp in ep in the hope of getting a raise.

illegit · #9 01-09-2006, 03:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
20$ 180 PS tourney 70 left ave 3600 or so

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP1 (t3359)
Hero (t2115)
MP3 (t3610)
CO (t4170)
Button (t2025)
SB (t1077)
BB (t2465)
UTG (t2765)
UTG+1 (t2185)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t600, 1 fold, MP1 calls t600, Hero ?

is this an easy push or would you even consider folding this? the initial raise could be anything. I did not take the call to be something to worry about as it would be a terrible play in my mind to just call with AA, but I suppose it could happen.

With KK in this situation do you not have to play as if you have the best hand given this betting?

[/ QUOTE ]
....

I'm waiting for the punchline.

If this is ever anything but an instashove then it's Poker in an alternate dimension.

seke2 · #10 01-09-2006, 03:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I didn't really consider pushing, first off. It was more of a question of how much to reraise, because I was definitely reraising, and yes, I pushed all in because I felt that I was ahead of both of them given the betting and the fact I have KK.

I was more curious if people basically treat KK as though they have AA preflop under 99% of the circumstances out there?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you reraise anything other than all-in, you have so little left behind that it's going in anyway. Might as well get it all-in when you're almost certainly the best hand rather than having to put the rest in on a flop when an ace hits.

As far as treating AA like KK, not really. I'd prefer to get it all in preflop more often with KK but still get action, as where I don't mind seeing a flop with AA. Just some subtle differences in bet sizing and responding to aggression from other players.