8-8 ITM. Am I leaking?

[Beachman42]

I have become increasingly critical of my mid pp (77-TT) play in MTTs, esp. post flop. Please take a look and critique as appropriate. I lost the HH, but its still fresh in my mind.

PS 180 - 14 left, 7 per table. Blinds are 600/300/50 I think. The bubble was non-existent this time as we went from ~25 to 19 in about 1 orbit!

Reads - Hero is TAG and has not gotten out of line (& been caught). Villian is so so and has a tendency to call with marginal holdings. He does have a b*tchin luck box. Also, Hero recently lost a flip with AK to a pp shortie.

Action:

Hero (9K) has 8-8 on the button.

Villian (22K) is BB.

4 folds to Hero who raises to 1,800 (my standard raise in this MTT for AA - air). SB folds. BB calls.

Flop (4,250) J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB bets 600, Hero?

Other questions, Should Hero push pf? Why?

Am I now WA/WB? If so, How to I "seek the truth" without busting? I cannot see a line that lets me learn more without being pot committed.

Thanks in advance!

[sfwusc]

He min bets into a 7+BB pot? I might be stupid but I say, I am good and push back into him.

I dont give the 1/7 pot bet much credit. You also need chips if you want to win this thing. I think now might be the time.


I dont hate a open push, but dont think it is the most correct option.

Also, you can just call the flop and see what the turn brings. You arent really pot committed by calling 600. You can do anything on the turn but fold/all in..... so learn a lot quick [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

-SFWUSC

[FBP]

Zero draws here, and bb min-bets which i often see done by a draw trying to choose the price for turn (obviously not the case here, cept if 2 over count as a draw), or some kind of weak top pair/pp.

Feels like a push would be pretty horrible to me here. Calling is fine in position, this is not far from a WAWB situation. Could get tricky later i admit though.

Open push ain't real bad considering that loose bb won't mind calling a simple raise with those hands we want him to fold like 9T J9 QT and rags like that.

[kniper]

You are either WA or WB. So I don't think pushing is the right option here.

pot is 4850, right? You are getting over 8 to 1... but any kind of raise is prolly gonna commit you, and calling lets villian get odds on catching an overcard.

If you are gonna play this hand for your chips, I think a weakish raise is prolly the right line. You have 7200 left, so raising to something like 2400-2800 might induce a bluff by villian. He pushes you call. If he just calls, I am prolly pushing or calling whatever comes since you are committed.

Calling is not terrible either, though I think it is kind of weakish.

Pushing PF is def an option. There is 1250 in the pot PF. this gives you an M of about 5.6 7-handed. On the whole, being on the button I think this is a reasonable play as you will certainly get calls from hands worse than yours since BB is stacked. I bet you prolly didn't pick this line cause of your recent lost coin flip.

[Art Vandelay]

First, I think pushing preflop is a little bit of overkill. Sure we like the blinds, but 88 in BSB is a great hand, let this villian make calls when he shouldn't.

As is, this is tough, I'm calling getting great pot odds and seeing what the turn brings. It may be that this guy lets you call down cheap but I'm gonna fold to a significant bet on the turn or river. Feels like a WA/WB to me, so I'm wanting to keep this pot small. Calling does that as best as we can do.

I don't like a push here because the only hands that will call are hands we are behind. I don't know, maybe 77 or 66 call but other than that what's calling us?

[IMALLIN767]

Does he use the min bet button frequently? If so I fold & wait for a better spot. If you have not seen him use it before(not with a monster) i push sensing weakness

[IMALLIN767]

I couldnt disagree more. I think most people are way too tight in this stage of a low buyin tourney. Payouts are so topheavy, you have to get agressive & go for 1st. If you bust barely in the money, so be it. Preflop with 88 on the button, I make it 4x the BB(dont want a call)

[Beachman42]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet you prolly didn't pick this line cause of your recent lost coin flip.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. The recent loss took about half my stack, but I still felt good about my play at that time. However, I lack that comfortable experience with pp. Thus, I took my standard line until this point.

[Art Vandelay]

If you push what hands that are behind are calling you?

I do not see how "playing for first" comes into this equation.

[Beachman42]

[ QUOTE ]
I couldnt disagree more. I think most people are way too tight in this stage of a low buyin tourney. Payouts are so topheavy, you have to get agressive & go for 1st. If you bust barely in the money, so be it. Preflop with 88 on the button, I make it 4x the BB(dont want a call)

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate a bit more?

1. I don't mind busting in the effort to accumulate chips, but I'm not comfy with 88. Thus, my post.
2. You advocate a 4XBB raise pf to scare away villian. My read was that he will make marginal calls, thus (per point 1) I want his call & chips. He's the BB here.
3. I think this is a good flop for me. His bet was very confusing as he could have checked. So far, his play has not been stellar, but his luck box has. His suck-outs have generated almost all of his chips.

Can you explain why raising to only pocket the blinds/antes is aggressive poker?