should these kind of hands be abandoned at flop against LA-A?

[spigge]

Party Poker
Limit holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
5 folds, <font color="#cc3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5.5SB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc3333">Button bets</font>, Hero folds.

Results:
Final pot: 7.75BB

[ajm36]

I b/f this flop. The only cards I really want to see on the turn are either an A or J. I don't REALLY want to see a jack because the only river card that I know for sure helps me is a Q. So really the only turn card I'm looking for is an A. 3 outs and I'm not looking to show this down unimproved--not enough to stick around.

[tehox]

Really depends on how LAG he is. Against a big LAG though once you get to the river with a showdownable hand (ace high, any pair), you should not be folding for one bet. So basically, you're not getting odds to improve your hand on flop or turn, so either fold somewhere there or show down your hand.

[CoachDirty]

I'd fold on the turn (mostly because I don't like folding to flop raises HU) There are so many things Villian can have that beat us, and not many cards that really help us. (Ace may be no good)

[detruncate]

How LAG is our LA-A? Does he bet/raise with TP, any pair, any pair or draw, doodly squat? What does he coldcall with? Has he been floating since you've shown that you're capable of folding? You have as many as 10 outs on the turn (more likely a little less than 7) and may be ahead sometimes if Villain is on the sktetchier end of things.

With 7ish outs, you can call the turn on the merits of the draw alone, and I think you have close to that given the times Villain raises this flop with a pair less than T. There is reverse domination to be considered wrt your A. Also JT made it on the turn and there are quite a few semi-reasonable 2-pair possibilities. But I think it balances out overall to somewhere between 6 and 7 outs if Villain will coldcall pf and raise the flop with a wide range of hands.

Villain seems fairly likely to have hit this board somehow. I'm ok with folding the river UI unless he's maniacal. This isn't the sort of hand where your turn call commits you to a river call since you can call correctly without factoring in your chances of winning UI.

Most times a river fold UI is just fine. I'd usually check/call a T, bet/call an A, bet/3-bet a straight.

nh

[inspir3d]

i would probably have done the same on the flop because the odds/implied odds offered are still ok and he could be raising an 8 or 9 pair, although his calling a raise cold preflop probably indicates he has a K.

i would fold this turn having only a gutshot and drawing to an A since the odds are not so good anymore.