Pot odds x street in SSH

[Samara]

I thought I knew this, but reading SSH confused me a bit.
When your are drawing alive, you should compare your odds to draw x pot odds. If your pot odds are greater than your odds to draw, you call, right?

Well, if I'm counting my odds and using an odds table in SSH for ex, and I am at the flop, I should use odds with 2 cards to come, right? And if in the turn, odds with one card to come. Correct me here.

Why does SSH only lists a table of odds with 1 card to come only? Should I use this all the time, even on the flop??

[Samara]

To sum up: When 2 cards to come (in flop), use 2 cards to come table. When in turn, use 1 card to come, right?

[metsandfinsfan]

Depends ..... if you miss the turn do you call a bet automatically????? Do you fold????

Only use 2 cards to come when you are all in or when you are confident you can see the turn for free

[Buzz-cp]

[ QUOTE ]
To sum up: When 2 cards to come (in flop), use 2 cards to come table. When in turn, use 1 card to come, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No this is not correct, especially when you are drawing slim (e.g. 3 outs). Since you will likely have to call a bet on the turn, then you can't figure with 2 cards to come. This would be correct if you were all-in on the flop with your call.

A case where it is accepted is when the equity of your hand is good enough to bet/raise for value (e.g. strong draws). For example, you have a flush, and there are 3 other players in. You will make your flush 35% of the time by the river, but you are putting in 25% of the bets. Another way to think about equity is that you are putting money in with more cards to come as your hand will win more than it's fair share against the other opponents. This is why we always raise/reraise AA, even if there are 8 other players in the pot with you.

Buzz

[Fishy McDonk]

[ QUOTE ]


A case where it is accepted is when the equity of your hand is good enough to bet/raise for value (e.g. strong draws). For example, you have a flush, and there are 3 other players in. You will make your flush 35% of the time by the river, but you are putting in 25% of the bets. Another way to think about equity is that you are putting money in with more cards to come as your hand will win more than it's fair share against the other opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't this bet or raise with the flush draw only be correct if you thought it would buy you a free card, since your odds of getting there on the next card would be less than 25%?

[metsandfinsfan]

You are raising into 3 other players when you are a 35% favorite with 2 cards to come .... by raising you
1 - may get better hands to fold
2 - build a bigger pot which will give you odds to call the turn if you miss

[Buzz-cp]

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't this bet or raise with the flush draw only be correct if you thought it would buy you a free card, since your odds of getting there on the next card would be less than 25%?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fishy,

It's correct for a variety of reasons. You may get a free turn card if you are last to act. The main reason is that you are putting money in when you are getting the best of it. You will be betting in a good relative position so that it nearly guarantees you get 3 others to put their money in (e.g. the bettor is to your left, and everyone behind him calls, so you raise when it gets back to you). As you stated, you may not be able to pump this draw if you do not make it on the turn, as your equity is now ~20%. However, you will be able to call a bet on the turn as the pot is large enough (need 4:1).

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
2 - build a bigger pot which will give you odds to call the turn if you miss

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't really a reason to raise.

If you're a 35% to make your hand, and there are 3 opponents, you are making money on every bet going in on that street regardless of the result of the hand.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
If your pot odds are greater than your odds to draw, you call, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

You could go under the odds to if the implied odds will make up for it. It's why you can sometimes call a gutshot on the flop getting 7-1 while the odds of making it are 11-1.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Only use 2 cards to come when you are all in or when you are confident you can see the turn for free

[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot value.

b