River question

fyodor · #1 03-28-2006, 12:31 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 6 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

River: (6 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero?

Check call - Picks off bluffs but misses a bet when he checks behind but would have called with say a worse Ace

Bet fold - Makes the bet Check Call misses when there is a call but no raise. Once in a blue moon gets bluffed out

Bet call - Generally loses an extra bet but once in a blue moon makes one extra

I think Bet Call is the worst option and Bet Fold the best but Check Call is only slightly worse than Bet Fold. Is this a Bet Fold every time or is Check Call a viable option?

Anqew · #2 03-28-2006, 12:44 PM

Im bet call on this river, I can easily see him call this river w/ the K or some crappy A and as for the raise representing the flush/straight if you fold to scary river cards when people raise, someone might notice and take shots at you.
-Anqew

Squirrel · #3 03-28-2006, 12:58 PM

I bet/fold against all but the trickiest opponents.

I rarely play online though, so maybe the river bluff raise is a little more common than what I'm accustomed to.

Mister Z · #4 03-28-2006, 01:55 PM

This a very read-dependent situation... but against a complete unknown I think I would bet call. We can't put him so squarely on flush - he could easily be calling down with a K or even something strange. If we know our opponent to be a TAG or a LP then our decision is much easier.

Squirrel · #5 03-28-2006, 02:16 PM

I know that online is more aggro than B+M but I just can't believe that betting and calling a raise against a complete unknown is the best option of the three.

If I am grossly underestimating the river bluff raising frequency of unknown players online, please let me know.

In the live games I play in (up to 20-40) this would be the worst option by quite a bit.

gopnik · #6 03-28-2006, 02:31 PM

I think the only way you can make the right decision on the river is by having a read on UG+1.
If he's aggressive, I go for check/call to pick up a bluff and not getting bluffed off a pot by a raise.
If he's passive, bet/fold.
Not sure about bet/call

No_Match · #7 03-28-2006, 02:38 PM

I believe that it's almost meaningless to analyze this situation without reads. Only viable option I see for opp is a flush draw. I don't play 5/10 yet, but I think average player should raise K on flop. Same for ace on turn.
This call-call-call seems very strange for me. So I dont see many hands worse than your, he would call with (unless he is complete fish). Play check and pray for bluff.

brettbrettr · #8 03-28-2006, 02:41 PM

A lot of this is image stuff, but I'd be inclined to bet-fold the river. You raised out of the BB, showing a ton of stregnth, then bet the king high flop and the ace high turn. If this guy has the stones to bluff here, and thinks you'll fold a monster for one bet, so be it. If he's retarded though, none of this applies.

JCCARL · #9 03-28-2006, 02:52 PM

Absent of reads, check/call. You might pick off a bluff, or a weaker pair. Pot is too big just to check fold because villain might have made his flush at the river.
Regards,
Carl

Squirrel · #10 03-28-2006, 03:34 PM

Hero is not even considering check-folding. He is considering bet-folding. Big difference.