Help -- I have NEVER seen this happen before.

epdaws · #1 03-26-2006, 04:27 PM

Um, wow. This happened at Seneca Niagara at a 1-2 NL game. There are some very knowledgeable rules people in this forum, and I'm looking for guidance.

I had $150 in front of me; the oldish lady in the hand had about the same.

I pick up A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the button. The lady limps, another player limps, the CO limps, and I raise to $14. Lady calls, both other limpers call.

Flop is J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Lady checks, other limper checks, CO bets $20, I raise to $70, Lady pushes all in for ~$150, one fold, CO folds, I call.

Lady turns over Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

The turn is 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and the river is 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], lady says, "Nice hand." "Thanks," I reply, getting ready to rake a pot of about $350.

"Wait a second," the dealer says. "I think I made a mistake. I think I burned one too many before the turn."

Before I can even respond, he turns the turn and river cards face down and fishes two cards out of the muck.

"These are the correct turn and river," he says. And one of the cards he turns over is the Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Immediately, the old lady reaches for the pile of chips. "Wait a second, what's going on?" I ask heatedly. "You dealt the turn and river!"

"I know," the dealer responds. "But for some reason I didn't think anyone was betting the flop, so I got ready to deal the turn and I burned one. Then people started betting, and then I burned an extra card when we went to the turn."

The table looks on in amazement, and the player next to me tells me I should call the floor.

"I want to call the floor," I tell the dealer. "Even if you did burn one too many, you finished dealing the hand and declared a winner. And you didn't even explain how you picked out the two cards you ended replacing the turn and river with!"

"We don't need the floor," the dealer responds. "I made a mistake and I fixed it."

"I want to talk to the floor," I say.

"Then go get the floor," the dealer responds.

I walk to the end of the room to talk to the floor, but as I'm talking to the floor, she informs me that the dealer is already dealing the next hand, and there will be nothing she can do to change what happened. I am stunned.

"The dealer should not have made his own decision in that spot, even if he did make a mistake," the floor person tells me.

I ask her what her ruling would have been, and she essentially tells me she doesn't know the rule and would have had to be there before the next hand is dealt. She tells me I'm out of luck.

Can anyone help me on this? My first mistake was leaving the table to grab the floor instead of calling loudly enough to get the floor. I have NEVER seen a dealer deal out all five cards, declare a winner, then go back and fish two cards out of the muck to replace the turn and river.

Thanks for any help on this matter.

spino1i · #2 03-26-2006, 04:31 PM

Wow. That. Sucks.

I cant believe that they made such a horrible decision.. not sure if I want to play there anymore..

LoosenUp · #3 03-26-2006, 04:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. That. Sucks.

I cant believe that they made such a horrible decision.. not sure if I want to play there anymore..

[/ QUOTE ]

really the horrible decision was from the OP, not holding on to his cards and yelling for the floor. That sucks, the fishing throw the muck is extremely questionable.

runout_mick · #4 03-26-2006, 04:42 PM

How are you not in jail right now? Or are you out on bail?

epdaws · #5 03-26-2006, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow. That. Sucks.

I cant believe that they made such a horrible decision.. not sure if I want to play there anymore..

[/ QUOTE ]

really the horrible decision was from the OP, not holding on to his cards and yelling for the floor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely true. I have never had to call for the floor before, and this was a nice experience for me. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Warren Harding · #6 03-26-2006, 04:45 PM

I'd hope the camera caught this action-- I'd at least want that dealer fired. I'd also get the floor to come over and talk to the people in the hand to corroborate my take, of course, to at least get that dealer fired.

Assuming you're not just making this up for attention. But that's for other people to debate-- I do believe humans can be this stupid.

As an aside, what are the legal consequences of flipping a poker table while in play.

psandman · #7 03-26-2006, 04:48 PM

I have no problem with the board being corrected here since there was no possible action at the time the error was made.

I do have a problem with how thsi occurred. The dealer as soon as he realized his error should have stopped everything and calle dthe floor. the dealer should not have turned over any cards (The decison here is much easier to make and accept if the decision maker doesn't know that the outcome of the hand will definately be affected by the decision.

epdaws · #8 03-26-2006, 04:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming you're not just making this up for attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, no. I'm not saying here at the dealer was dishonest; it's entirely possible he burned one too many and only realized it after dealing out the turn and river. I'm just not sure if the hand should stand because he dealt all five and declared a winner; I'm also extremely frustrated because I did not receive an explanation for how he selected the cards to replace the turn and river.

I don't think other players at the table felt the dealer was trying to screw me; in fact, I would guess they think he was trying to fix a mistake.

epdaws · #9 03-26-2006, 04:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with the board being corrected here since there was no possible action at the time the error was made.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't either, but is there a rule that relates to this situation? I'd be surprised if it's totally discretionary.

tom10167 · #10 03-26-2006, 04:53 PM

I'm not even going to lie, I've forgotten to burn, and I've overburned too(somehow?)
You know what I do?

The logical thing. ...Nothing.

Your floor sucks and I would have at least gotten a food comp, I'm pretty sure I would have kicked that dealer in the face. Maybe Dicelump knows who it is.