Playing Poker beyond the math.

[winky51]

I decided to go pro with my wife holding a great job. My end year 2005 and 1st 2 months I did really well playing part time. Every month I notice my game improve and my player reading skills getting better. I play 3x more hands now and am noticing a quicker improvement in my skills. The money is there to win as long as I stay focused.

I am noticing that as I progress and improve I see the minor flaws in other TAGs. I see that I am now becoming the better TAG. I see players with similar stats like mine making the wrong play constantly.

EXAMPLE 3/6 SH. TAG (13% PFR) MP1 raises, fish cold calls, I call in BB A9s.
FLOP: 10d 5h 2c TAG bets fish calls, I fold.
TURNL 10d 5h 2c 2d TAG bets again, fish raises....
To sum it up the TAG called down with ace high (AJ) and lost.

That really blew my mind. What was he thinking the fish had. On a broken board like that and a rare raise from a fish what could he possibly beat there? The fish was not complicated enough or had the stats to justify a semibluff on the turn. He did NOT call down with A high unless it was AK or AQ and then he would call only. The board had no draw and mostly low cards. So to me it is obvious that the fish had a piece of it. This TAG had ample time to study the fish and see his actions.

In some cases if I knew my player well enough I might check fold the turn if the pot is small. I have AJ and the fish calls down with a pair AK, or AQ. What am I beating... nothing.

Most will probably disagree but I feel there is some value making a fold like this.

EXAMPLE: Another hand at another table this 70/4.5/.4 fish kept calling me and busted me 2-3 times in a row. He waited till the turn to raise a made hand all on broken boards. I gave the fish respect and folded all 3 times, twice A high only. I had over 100 hands on him and notes that I knew he does not bluff and only raises 2 pair or better slowplaying it to the turn. In one instance I had TP/TK but the board was so broken and the pot too small to justify calling for 2 pair. Looks like I fold too much right?

Well we also had a very tricky and intelligent LAG at the table that does read his opponents well and was bullying the table with success for a while. I had not been there long and I had only played 6 hands won 3 uncontested on the flop folded 3 to the fish in a row. The LAG decided that I was weak and started overbluffing me on the turn with nothing in the next couple hands we were both involved. He took it so far to even raise me on the river, no hand, no pair, no draw. His actions soon ended as he realized I would call him down but not the fish. The hands I played vs the LAG I won all the money back that I lost to the fish because he failed to realize that I can fold one hand to X player and call down Y player's raise with the same hand.

I don't see enough TAGs making this adjustment to each different player often enough nor realize when another TAG is adjusting differently to different players. I take notes on the TAGs that do and when I am involved in a hand I think about what they think of me and how I have been playing. We all have our own styles and ways to play. Its human nature and hard to change. Other players can pick up on this and us it to their advantage.

It amazes me how each level I acheive in poker how more complicated the game is from a point of strategy. How many little factors have to be considered to make the right play. I still feel like a novice.

In Barry Greenstein's book he asks the question "who is the best poker player in the world?" His answer was interesting. If you were to compare World Champion Stu Ungar to a disciplined solid 2 year professional veteran online player who only plays limit.. Barry would say the latter.

Why? Because even though Stu possessed some amazing reading skills and his NL style blew the poker world away he died poor and empty handed at a young age. The veteran knows how to save money, value it, select the right tables, knows when he is beat by better players and leaves, plays within his limit as his game improves, is disciplined, plays neither drunk nor tired nor angry, recognizes when he is on tilt and takes a break, and so on. He makes a living and enjoys life and family.

Barry's statement really hit home and made me look at the deeper picture. It changed my game and my view on poker.

Anyways I am not sure why I wrote all this. I just had lunch and felt like relaxing and sharing my experiences.

My wife says "anything you read if you are able to pick up one thing that helps your life, it was worth the read because that knowledge stays with you forever."

[RawPalm]

I"m curious, what limits do you play, and how long had you been playing part time before you chose to go at it full time?

[winky51]

I play 3/6 SH currently. I am trying to make money to live on and build up my bankroll. Before doing it full time I was playing around 40 hours a month. I started in Jan of 2004 after seeing Moneymaker win millions and some Russian kid win 1/2 a mil after only 6 months of playing. I thought, damn I can do that. I have made a good deal of money but I had to use it for other things and couldn't build up my backroll.

After 2 years is when I started seeing that my skills were geting real good and I was able to win on a contant basis. I saw the long term swings of poker and developed my reading skills very well. I was able to outthink other TAGs ate the table, lay down good hands, and catch bluffers. I have read over 40 books, reread most of them more than 3 times. I have had some help but no one has taken me under their wing.

I also run a web marketing company part time that generates money for me so that helps too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I prefer to say I am in business for myself.

[RawPalm]

Do you play only one table at a time, or do you multi? Also, do you think your reading skills are the biggest contributer to your increasing success?

[winky51]

4 tables full, 3 tables SH. I play 2 hour sessions then take a break. I make sure I eat and take my vitamins before I play. I don't play mad, tired, or worried.

I'd say the important thing for players to learn after they learn the math part is...

Reading hands, player styles, position, and board together to formulate the appropriate action.

I think once a player has an understanding of all this they naturally and quickly can make the right play. I feel some players lack in one of the areas and thus it affects the whole. Its not easy.

[Bad Lobster]

How in the world do you keep track of all the individual players in multitable play? I just started trying multitables recently and I'm usually too busy to even see what they're doing, let alone remember it.

One of the hardest things for me is recognizing good players--I notice the people who make big blunders and the ones who win big pots, but good plays and varied strategy don't stick out so much...

[Gazzbut]

Are you using any kind of HUD to display pokertracker stats on screen while you play?

[NicGreek]

Reply to Bad Lobster

Usually take a lots of notes, start by concentrating on the players closest to you. Like the 2 ppl directly to your left since they will be in the blinds when you have the btn, do they defend a lot, do they go to showdown with A high are a pocketpair lower than the board? Like 22 when the board reads 678KJ with a possible flush they dont have ? And so on and on... Multitabling makes it harder to keep track of ppl but using pokertracker and gametime are good to show tendencies of how loose/tight passive/aggressive players are. Hope that helps a bit

[winky51]

You take notes and know your limit for successful play. I can play 3 tables 6 max but not 4 effectively. I take notes on patterns of players and have my own system
http://www.texasholdempoker-stats.com/thp_ratings.html

Don't worry about what your hourly BB/100 is or how many tables your playing. Play well and within your means. The days of super EZ money are over. A lot better players are online now but they are still bad. It used to be 3/6 was loaded with fish, now its tough. Shorthanded still has lots of players who don't know what they are doing. IMO 2/4 is the highest level you can go and still find tons of fish on a good ratio compared to other limits.

You need poker tracker and poker ace hud. Those 2 tools allow you to get stats on players. VPIP, PFR, Aggression. I color code mine so I have an easy read.

As for good players they are out there and more than 50% are ABC players. They play correct technically but have few hand reading skills and adjust to other players poorly. Some TAGs are really good and you have to learn their style to beat them. All players have their pattern.

EXAMPLE: typical fish
bets top pair
bets ace top pair into preflop raiser.
waits till turn to raise with trips.
will cap 2 pair or better unless there is a str8 or flush out there, then they call down.
Only thinks about their hands
auto calls on draws or a flopped ace pair.
rarely bluffs.
delay in calling usually means weakness but will not fold any made pair
plays any ace
plays any suited
plays any connect
plays any 2 paint.

Even thought right now a lot of things take a lot of thought there will come a point where many things are automated. At a table full of bad players I know exactly what hands to play where and when to raise. Only when players are different from the normal I adjust. Player X raising 1st in from MP1 (PFR of 15%) I will reraise with AQ from the button and Player Y raising from the same position (PFR 3%) fold AQ to. Eventually your brain will learn to quickly figure out an opponents range of hands and play accordingly. Takes time.

[jesusson]

Thanks for the post, very informative.