Dealer reveals my mucked hand

knicknut · #1 03-25-2006, 07:27 PM

Sorry if this has been posted ad nauseum, but I couldn't find anything on it. I didn't make a huge deal out of this when it occured, but I thought I was treated unfairly.

Borgata 6/12. I have two pair on a suited flop. I get CRd on the flop, CRd on the turn, so I call the river. Guy turns over a flush, I muck my two pair. I look away, and as I look back, I see a player not involved in the hand asked to see my cards (they were towards the dealer but the mucked cards were on the other side of the board and pot). The dealer proceeds to turn my mucked cards face up and show them to the table.

I wasn't trying to slow roll and am usually a proponent of turning my cards up immediately, but I knew I was beat in a heads up battle and visibly threw my hand in the muck. Was I treated unfairly by having an uninvolved player successfully request to show my cards to the table?

Hass · #2 03-25-2006, 07:43 PM

Yes, the player must be in the hand to ask to see. I believe the only exception is if you show your cards to one or two people then they can ask, not sure if that is correct though.

If the player involved asks to see, the dealer will tap the muck with the cards so that your cards are dead in case you muck the winner on accident. If you don't turn the hand up yourself then you are not able to get the pot if your winning hand is turned over after being tapped in the muck.

bigfishead · #3 03-25-2006, 08:02 PM

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Yes, the player must be in the hand to ask to see.

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I call BS!...Ok I'm being a bit of a smartass but let me tellyou why I said "BS". The quote above suggests that is the only rule in every cardroom in this regard. NEVER FORGET, all rules are house dependent! They are different from cardroom to cardroom.
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I believe the only exception is if you show your cards to one or two people then they can ask, not sure if that is correct though.

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Above is where the term "show one show all" applies and only refers to the actual shown cards. Like if I guy flashes 1 card he doesnt have to expose both.

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If the player involved asks to see, the dealer will tap the muck with the cards so that your cards are dead in case you muck the winner on accident.

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Be careful there..this can cause havoc..here's why: In many cardrooms, if the supposed winner asks to see cards that a player mucked when he called the last bet, those cards often remain live for the above reason. If it's a winning hand when the dealer turns them over it's live. Touching the muck is so misconstrued in this respect. So if you have a winning hand and are just curious what the other guy had for "information", be willing to lose the pot.

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If you don't turn the hand up yourself then you are not able to get the pot if your winning hand is turned over after being tapped in the muck.

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refer to above.

Qwik story about this...6-7 yrs ago in a 4-8 game we had a guy that whenever he showed down a hand and others mucked he asked to see the hands...EVERY TIME. Knowing this house had the rule I mention above, I set him up. He was drunk, he was raising everything, we went capped on all streets, river he shows...I muck and yep, "I want to see that hand".

Dealer turns it over and I have the stone cold nuts. She pushes me the pot. He quits asking to see the hands.

crackhead · #4 03-25-2006, 08:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Qwik story about this...6-7 yrs ago in a 4-8 game we had a guy that whenever he showed down a hand and others mucked he asked to see the hands...EVERY TIME. Knowing this house had the rule I mention above, I set him up. He was drunk, he was raising everything, we went capped on all streets, river he shows...I muck and yep, "I want to see that hand".

Dealer turns it over and I have the stone cold nuts. She pushes me the pot. He quits asking to see the hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

nh sir!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

tom10167 · #5 03-25-2006, 08:07 PM

This is discussed ad nauseum.

wrschultz · #6 03-25-2006, 08:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Qwik story about this...6-7 yrs ago in a 4-8 game we had a guy that whenever he showed down a hand and others mucked he asked to see the hands...EVERY TIME. Knowing this house had the rule I mention above, I set him up. He was drunk, he was raising everything, we went capped on all streets, river he shows...I muck and yep, "I want to see that hand".

Dealer turns it over and I have the stone cold nuts. She pushes me the pot. He quits asking to see the hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

nh sir!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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I would be too afraid to do this....

bav · #7 03-25-2006, 09:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the player involved asks to see, the dealer will tap the muck with the cards so that your cards are dead in case you muck the winner on accident.

[/ QUOTE ]

Be careful there..this can cause havoc..here's why: In many cardrooms, if the supposed winner asks to see cards that a player mucked when he called the last bet, those cards often remain live for the above reason. If it's a winning hand when the dealer turns them over it's live. Touching the muck is so misconstrued in this respect. So if you have a winning hand and are just curious what the other guy had for "information", be willing to lose the pot.

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I got to listen to a couple minutes of this Poker Old Wive's Tale this week. Someone not in the hand asked to see a mucked hand and the dealer just flipped the two cards over. Someone at the table shouts at the dealer "NO!!! You didn't tap the muck first!" and proceeds to rag on the dealer because the hand was still alive and so could have taken the pot down. And he tells the whole table how the dealer MUST tap the muck with the cards to kill them 'cause they're alive until he does, but if the winner of the pot asks to see the losing hand the dealer must not tap the muck 'cause that would kill 'em. This Poker Professor went on and on about it, very proud of himself for knowing the importance of tapping the muck. sigh

Rottersod · #8 03-25-2006, 11:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, the player must be in the hand to ask to see. I believe the only exception is if you show your cards to one or two people then they can ask, not sure if that is correct though.

If the player involved asks to see, the dealer will tap the muck with the cards so that your cards are dead in case you muck the winner on accident. If you don't turn the hand up yourself then you are not able to get the pot if your winning hand is turned over after being tapped in the muck.

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Any player can ask to see the cards if the hand is called down. He doesn't need to be in the hand. This is poker 101. It may be a breach of etiquette for a non involved player to ask to see the cards but it's perfectly legal. There are times when I'll tell the dealer I want to see both hands before the river and then if both players call the dealer has to show both hands (obviously one hand is always shown). It's a good way to get information on a players betting patterns and strategy but you'd be advised not to do this too often unless you want to meet out in the parking lot.

MicroBob · #9 03-26-2006, 12:04 AM

In my opinion you would be advised to NEVER do this unless you actually do suspect collusion (the original intent of the rule as i understand it).

If you did this to me I would be less than thrilled.

I really think it is a lousy breach of etiquette to ask to see hands for information/curiousity purposes.

Rottersod · #10 03-26-2006, 12:50 AM

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In my opinion you would be advised to NEVER do this unless you actually do suspect collusion (the original intent of the rule as i understand it).

If you did this to me I would be less than thrilled.

I really think it is a lousy breach of etiquette to ask to see hands for information/curiousity purposes.

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That's correct. I said it was breach of etiquette.