I hate these spots...

[mscags]

Villain is unknown as I'm new to the table.

Party 10-20

I raise UTG w KQ

Everyone folds to the BB who calls

Flop comes Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB checks and calls my bet

Turn is 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He checkraises me and I...

[wackjob]

uh, betting the turn is just about the dumbest thing?

[ArturiusX]

Only if his opponent is super agro and will semi bluff with a diamond. Otherwise giving away a free card here isn't a great thing.

[wackjob]

[ QUOTE ]
Only if his opponent is super agro and will semi bluff with a diamond. Otherwise giving away a free card here isn't a great thing.


[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree. i doubt you are ahead here often enough to bet, and if you do bet its likely you will get raised(as shown) and you should then likely be folding most of the time. i think a check here is the only play.

[Magikist]

[ QUOTE ]
i doubt you are ahead here often enough to bet,

[/ QUOTE ]
::barfs::

[ QUOTE ]
you should then likely be folding most of the time

[/ QUOTE ]
::barfs::

[ QUOTE ]
check here is the only play

[/ QUOTE ]
::dry heaves::

Villain is unknown. Against unknowns you must logically assume he plays average. The average 10-20 6-maxer defends his big blind liberally and peels flops liberally. No way you can give a free card here. Once you are raised, he only has to bluffing/overplaying 20% of the time for your call down to be good - assuming a diamond doesn't fall on the river. If diamond does fall, you have an easy decision.

A very standard line, imho, absent reads.

*Only against good players do you mind a turn check-raise, so that you might then consider checking it through. Game theoretically speaking, only their checkraises actually puts you to a tough decision. You want the aggro-semibluffer to hurt his own odds by semibluffing, and you should be calling down against him. You want the straightforward players to checkraise you so you can confidently cut your losses. In both cases, you are being given reliable information by the c/r so you don't make a mistake. It is only the checkraise of a good player capable of varying his play that will provoke you to make a mistake.

[mscags]

[ QUOTE ]
uh, betting the turn is just about the dumbest thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think giving a free card is horrible here. Villain has done absolutely nothing to indicate that we are behind so why would we give a free card. Not to mention we are giving him the hand when he would have folded a diamond when a fourth hits the river.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

Just call down. Next hand.

[Bond18]

wack im not sure why you think betting turn is so criminal? His range out of BB is pretty wide, don't you think its a little preemptive to give up just cause this bad card came off? Seems to me we have enough of a hand and a pot to protect here with a bet.

I think call this turn and fold if he bets a diamond river. Call non diamond.

[Schizo]

[ QUOTE ]
uh, betting the turn is just about the dumbest thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

So charging money from any ace, QJ, JT (OESD), any pocket pair, and any random diamond that happened to peel the flop is dumb?

[Wynton]

These types of hands are only tricky insofar as we're dealing with unknowns, right?

In that case, I have a simplistic attitude. Call down and get valuable info for the next hand. I think the info is worth making a 1 bb mistake here. (And for the record, I think calling down is correct anyway, regardless of the benefit of getting info.)