still wearing panties in the 30-60....................... :(

mc123 · #1 01-08-2006, 03:15 AM

Villain is a bit passive and hasn't done anything out of line so far in this session. I would say my image at the table is probably tight since I haven't done anything out of line yet.

for the last 109 hands his 4 handed stats are 40/12 with 0.6/1.5/1.7 aggro... WTSD 43%, W$SD 73%

I usually don't make this fold in this spot getting 9:1 on the river but it just felt right and add to the fact that the 30-60 on party has been killing me for some reason. Weak? or is this an okay fold.. comments on other streets too please!

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (8 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9 BB

NLfool · #2 01-08-2006, 03:26 AM

tough fold for me since I'm usually watching tv and on auto pilot. But I believe it's correct in this one. You put him on what? 89, JT?

mc123 · #3 01-08-2006, 03:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
tough fold for me since I'm usually watching tv and on auto pilot. But I believe it's correct in this one. You put him on what? 89, JT?

[/ QUOTE ]

AT or higher ace.. basically I just couldn't see him donking the river for the 3rd time without beating my kicker at least... he could also have something like KQh or 89h. I can only see him donking this flop with either an ace or a big draw..

Westley878 · #4 01-08-2006, 03:57 AM

PREFLOP: Standard

FLOP: I would also just call in this spot with the intention of calling down. The passive player may have you beat, but he may also be semi-bluffing a weak hand like Jx,two hearts, by just calling you will encourage him to bluff all the way if he misses, and you will save money those times he has you beat.

TURN: Although I told you my initial intentions would be to call down, I would change my mind on this turn card. I would now raise the turn as you did. The reason I would raise is becuz this is a passive player, which means when he has a better hand there is a good chance he will not 3 bet. Since your hand is strong enough to call down anyways, raising the turn with the intention of checking the river unimproved allows you to lose the same amount when youre behind but you get to win an extra big bet the times you improve on the river. The more aggressive your opponent is the less likely you would want to make this play not only becuz the probability goes up that he will 3 bet, but also becuz theres a higher probability that he may be bluffing and a raise will just kill your action.

RIVER: When a passive player bets into you on the river after you raised the turn, and all you have is top pair no kicker, your hand is usually toast. The question is will you be good here more than 1/10 times. Against this opponent I dont think so. I too would fold here. This is yet another reason why I think your turn raise was correct becuz against this specific opponent, you dont have to worry about getting outplayed should he bet into you on the river. His bet means exactly what hes representing, a better hand than top pair. Against a trickier opponent you would have to call here. For what its wroth, I think the passive player's most likely hand is AT.

Overall, I thought you played this hand very well on every street.

Victor · #5 01-08-2006, 08:12 AM

i need to bluff more.

streetz · #6 01-08-2006, 09:23 AM

i'll jam flop and showdown hand. folding top pr for 1 BB 4 handed and now wondering about it, i rather pay off the $60 and get a good night sleep. note i pretty much jam flop w/ any kind of a hand so my actions are more heated than yours. in your case, folding doesn't look too bad.

Paluka · #7 01-08-2006, 10:47 AM

You aren't worried he has a busted heart draw and wants one more chance at winning the pot?

Westley878 · #8 01-08-2006, 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You aren't worried he has a busted heart draw and wants one more chance at winning the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]
Based on the hero's read, I dont think a passive player would bet the river as a bluff after the hero raised the turn. The hero's play reminds me of the concept in Theory of Poker called stopping bluffs, page 193.
Here's a quote from this section:

"Essentially the strategy to stop bluffs is to represent more strength then you actually have. Your opponent will not try to bluff, thinking you have atleast a calling hand and perhaps better."

Obviously this concept only applies against logical players, I believe this passive player will play logical in this situation. So becuz the hero has effectively stopped a bluff by raising the turn and represting a bigger hand than he actually has, he can safely fold the river against this specific opponent. Against most opponents online I would call the river bet, but not this one.

Derek123 · #9 01-08-2006, 03:09 PM

I cant believe all the people saying fold here. He can play a lot of stuff that you beat here.

mc123 · #10 01-08-2006, 03:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You aren't worried he has a busted heart draw and wants one more chance at winning the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be worried but this guy is rather passive like I said and I haven't seen him get out of line once yet.

I can't see him betting a naked flush draw both on the flop and turn with his aggression.