c-bet or not?

[ttttt]

My latest review session highlighted that I may have a leak when it comes to c-betting the flop. What would you do with this hand?

Villains are your average loose passives

Dealt to Hero in C/O K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG calls $2
Middle calls $2
Hero raises to $4
Button calls $4
SB folds
BB folds
UTG calls $2
Middle calls $2

*** FLOP *** 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG checks
Middle checks
Hero ?

Make the 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] a 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I think the check would be clear. This is closer, but I would check here aswell. You are not that likely to have the best hand here 4 handed even if there is only one card in the playing zone, passive players may have limped or coldcalled with A high or a pocket pair. Or hit something, obviously.

[jakeduke]

It's already an 8SB pot - I think you should bet and thin the field some - most notably hoping to get button to fold. If villians are passive you will a) know if you are behind
b) probably get a free river card if you want it.

If you had aggressive villians this would probably change, but here I say bet the flop and reevaluate on the turn

[Shooternewt]

Button is the player I worry about the most here (without reads). He coldcalled pf. Plus buttons have a habit of betting when checked to. I would check and if button bets, UTG & MP fold, check raise. If UTG and MP call, I fold. If button checks it through that is fine.

[deception5]

I bet. The button folding would be a major coup as you would gain position and potentially see 2 more cards for 1SB(and this happens a reasonable % of the time). Even if the button calls you can check the turn and he will often check behind if he missed (he is loose passive afterall).

[danzasmack]

Yeah, the bet is valuable because it has a chance of giving you the button. You most likely have 6 clean outs. Granted not everyone will fold but your 1SB into an 8SB pot may get you to the river.

[Sandberg]

I don't like a continuation bet here.

Here is why:

1) Your hand is decent but easily reverse dominated. You have two overcards but they can only account for about 3 or so clean outs. You have no back door draws at all.

2) There are three other players in the hand. Even though this is a shorthanded game, this hand plays out like a slightly tight hand in a B & M casino.

3) Any player with a brain knows that flop is unlikely to have hit you and that you are just auto betting with nothing here. Since you're up against three other players, one or more of them is going to realize this.

4) Given the status of limpers + one guy cold calling your raise from the button, you need to consider the possibility someone has a pair already. Maybe not a piece of this flop but something like 66. A slowplayed set is a possibility here also.

Take the free card. Hope the button checks behind. Fold to any non K or J on the turn.

P.S.-I'm not sure I agree with raising this preflop with two limpers. one limper, I do it, but two limpers cuts down on the value of this top pair hand.

[jakeduke]

Shouldn't the size of the pot play a larger role in your decision-making process here? In general I agree with your concerns, but the pot is 8 bets already - why not take a stab when the bets are small? If someone has a pair, fine, but they haven't told me that yet by their betting. I think the possibility of gaining the button and seeing 2 cards for 1SB in a big pot really outweighs other concerns in the hand. I guess a decent read on the button would help here.

[Disconnected]

I won't usually make a continuation bet into 3 opponents if I've completely whiffed, but here I don't think it's terrible. The board is so ragged that you *might* just pick this up here, and there's a reasonable chance that you fold button and gain last position the rest of the hand.

[pistolero]

Yes, the size of the pot matters. It's big now and a small bet here won't push out overcards with backdoor draws, pocket pairs, or split pairs, especially with this non-scary flop. I would check the flop and peel if button bets. If the flop is checked through, the turn blanks, and it's checked to Hero again, I would bet. The double-sized bet is more likely to push out weak, but better holdings.

This hand plays much differently without a preflop raise. Opening KJo is fine, but after two limpers, I would be limping in as well.