PS 20/180: Fishhooks on the first hand

seke2 · #1 03-22-2006, 07:51 PM

Very first hand of a PS 20/180, so no reads obviously. I get jacks and reraise a MP1 minraiser from CO. BB and minraiser call, I cbet a moderately draw-friendly flop, and then turn a boat.

Everything is pretty standard until the turn. Do I bet the turn again for value, make a weak bet that offers proper drawing odds, or check and hope MP bets the river or I can get a value bet there?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter

Button (t1500)
SB (t1500)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)
Hero (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises to t40, 2 folds, Hero raises to t130, 2 folds, BB calls t110, MP1 calls t90.

Flop: (t400) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets t300, BB folds, MP1 calls t300.

Turn: (t1000) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero ???

ZBTHorton · #2 03-22-2006, 07:52 PM

This may seem weird. But I bet 300 again. That way your river push won't look really big.

schavuit · #3 03-22-2006, 08:01 PM

A bet-check-bet looks nice here I think. Comes across weaker than another bet on the turn which could very well make him fold. He might decide he can steal the pot on the river or he could catch something. More value in checking here I think, and the river is unlikely to hurt you.

wrschultz · #4 03-22-2006, 08:06 PM

I think ZBT's line is great here. This is a situation that doesn't seem to come up too often, but it can be extremely profittable depending on villain's holdings.

Markusgc · #5 03-22-2006, 10:10 PM

That is a hand the villain (or me) could go real broke on.

cbiz · #6 03-22-2006, 10:26 PM

I don't see a lot of value in betting this turn as QQ-AA will get it in on the river anyway and your forcing 88-1010 to fold a lot here. I would just check the turn hoping to induce a bluff from 88-1010 or hoping something like AK will hit their overcard. Push river if checked as this could be seen as a desperate bluff by AK and get a call from Jx or sometimes 88-1010 (assuming river is a blank).

Slap My Jack · #7 03-22-2006, 11:33 PM

I like ZBHorton's line as well.

This guy was willing to call 300 on that flop, I think he'll call it again.

Unless I've seen villain be aggressive towards weakness, I don't think that induced bluff comes often enough on this board to check on a board like this. I'd rather just get another call out of him for when he decides to fold the river.

For all we know the bluff we induce might come in the form of a donkbet. Not much of a payoff.

seke2 · #8 03-23-2006, 11:19 AM

Any thoughts from the daytime crowd? Seems like we have a split decision so far between a small turn bet and a turn check to try and induce a river bet by Villain or let him catch up enough to call a river bet.

registrar · #9 03-23-2006, 11:34 AM

In general, I like both approaches.

However here, I would donk bet 300 because I'm pretty sure he'll call. I may even bet less to show weakness but to keep sweetening the pot. My line would definitely be to represent that style on the 180 that we've come to know and love where someone just keeps sticking in small bets because they don't know what else to do.

A different tournie, agaisnt a better field of players, and I might check behind on the turn to induce a bluff on the river. In the 180, I would imagine that the majority of players would read this as weakness but not have the guts to do anything about it and just be happy to get to show down.

seke2 · #10 03-23-2006, 01:52 PM

Fair enough.

Quickie results.

I basically opted for the ZBT line. For some reason I decided I had to bet more than I did on the flop, so I bet 400 instead of 300, and Villain folded. In hindsight, I was debating bet-check-bet as schauvit suggested, and wanted to see what the consensus here was.