Should I keep playing?

[Tabs]

Hi all,

First post here... I decided to get into online poker a month or so ago after winning some in-person games with friends. I signed up on Party and just did play money for a bit to get the hang of how much faster things move online etc. At the same time, a friend of mine (an MIT grad) recommended I get Ed David and Mason's SSH, which I did. I read the book cover to cover and while not understanding everything fully, I got the basics relating to preflop play and the outs and pot odds concepts at least qualitatively.

About 2 weeks ago I put in $50 and started with a .50/1 game. I very quickly doubled what I put in and moved over to 1/2, where I've been since. As of a few days ago I was up $200 on my initial investment and convinced I was playing well. In the interim I went back and reread the postflop play sections of SSH and started really trying to understand how to match up odds of making a hand vs. the pot etc. I'm not the best in the world at doing math in my head unfortunately, but I've got some cheat sheets printed off etc...

So anyway - the last two nights have been a veritable disaster for me and I'm back down to my initial $50. I didn't really change anything about how I've been playing, it just seems like I'm getting consistently beat by these guys that always somehow manage to pull off some crazy hand on the river, or else they had it on the flop or turn and didn't show real signs of strength until the end, at which point the pot is too big for me to fold. I've had multiple AA, KK, KAs KQs etc hands last night and tonight get beat by insane draws like a set of 3's on the river, longshot straight and flush draws, etc. Even had a KK hand with an A A K flop get beat by quad AA's. (I kid you not) I know the book talks about how to handle these people that constantly call down aggressively with crap hands, but I really do seem to get consistently beat in my postflop play by this stuff when there's a few of them in the game. I know the odds are against them, but they just keep taking my money, often a lot of it if I had a powerhouse hand.

So... I'm wondering whether I should keep trying (and with what adjustments?) or call it a learning experience and forget about trying to do this alltogether. I realize that only a very small percentage of people can consistently win at this, and I just wonder if it's worth potentially going into a loss situation continuing to try... I kinda promised myself I'd stop if I got back down to that initial $50.

I will fully admit that I'm not quite at a full level of understanding of some of the postflop concepts in SSH - I do know however that the pot was large on most of these showdowns I've gone to and that I had at least the highest known pair when I did it, often more.

Another thing I really started to honestly wonder is if Party is rigging the hands, as in their software knows that I've won quite a bit, knows what hands I play, etc, so it decides to start giving people ways to beat me even though I'm playing the same way as I did when I was winning? Is this at all possible or am I just being paranoid?

Thanks for any advice - been reading here for a few weeks already now and you guys obviously know a ton.

[Splossy]

Party do not need to rig the game to make money. They make money when you win and when you lose, as long as you play. You are being paranoid if you think the big computer is watching you and picking on you! :-)

I'm certainly no expert but you can play like a loon and double you money over a few weeks and play like a pro and lose it all in the same period. Your bankroll is not big enough for 1/2.

[beaster]

First of all you're way under-rolled for the limits you're playing. The general accepted bankroll is 300BB (big bets), so with your $50 you should be playing 0.10/0.20.

The nano-limits are easily crushable with the concepts in SSH. Study, read hands on 2+2, and play. Repeat. Invest in Poker Tracker to keep track of your stats and to review hands where you waffled a bit. Post hands you can't quite figure out.

Start at 0.10/0.20 and don't move up in limits until a) you have 300BB for the new level and b) you feel confident.

[Fantam]

Hi Tabs, and welcome to the forums. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Firstly forget about Party rigging the cards. Its just not worth it to them to do that. Their poker site is a multi-million dollar business, which they are not going to jeopardise through shoddy practices.

Well it looks as though you were progressing in learning how to play and running well, and then VARIANCE reared its ugly head ! [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

However, you were probably also overextending your bankroll. The standard recommendation is that you need about 300 BB to withstand normal fluctuations at a limit.

So try moving back to $.50/1.00 and then try to build up your bankroll until it is large enough to move up to a higher limit. You may even want to try playing at a lower limit at another site.

There is also a good thread in the FAQ about building bankrolls through taking advantage of bonuses at different sites.

Also, although you have suffered some bad beats, try not to get too despondent. We all get bad beats from time to time, and no one enjoys them, but they will happen anyway.

Consider a bad downswing to be part of the learning curve.
In fact there are some very good posters on here, who have said they have lost 200BB, when they have had a bad run.

Finally, start posting some hands that you have had difficulty with when you have played (not bad beat posts though), and start responding to other players hand posts.

This will help to improve your game, become enjoyable, and hopefully help minimise the effect of bad variance, which all players will experience from time to time.

Oh, and yes keep playing ! You have come to far to give up now ! With the 2+2 micros behind you, I am sure your bankroll will go up again ! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[McNeese72]

For starters, you are under bankrolled. You should have at least 300 big bets at whatever level you are playing.

Doc

[LeadbellyDan]

What your experiencing here is just variance. Everyone goes through good and bad spells and all though it takes a while to get used to it its unavoidable. Another problem you have is bankroll. You should have stuck on the 0.5/1 game for a lot longer before moving up. You need to avoid putting more than 10% of your money into a game at any one time so you really need about $500 before moving up to to 1/2. Anyway I think you should persevere as long as you enjoy playing. It sounds like you play pretty well if you were up $150 so keep at it and you've got a good chance of success.

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
For starters, you are under bankrolled. You should have at least 300 big bets at whatever level you are playing.


[/ QUOTE ]

this appears to be your biggest problem.

Start posting some replies to hands here to get an idea if you are on the right track. SSHE is a great place to start also. Go to Stars or some other place with nano limits, and play some .10/.20 and get your feet wet. GL

[Zilarik]

When I first started, I did the same thing as you - bought in for 50 and went straight to the .5/1 tables. You will go busto at the slightest hint of variance, as I did the first time.

The next time I bought in, I bit the bullet, came in for the full $300 bankroll, and have never been happier with the results. You don't have to play on Party, since their lowest limit is .5/1 except for the "new player" rooms which you won't have access to forever - so you might want to consider the smaller limits on other sites. I've played on Titan and the micro/nano limits there are exceedingly soft, if you don't want to drop that much more cash on the game just yet. The competition doesn't always know what they're doing and you might get sucked out from time to time, but if you want more practice with hand selection/pot odds/etc it's as good a place as any.

[Offeral]

Ahh the old variance post. Tabs, keep your head up. If I had a nickel for every post like this I've read on 2+2 I'd have at least a dollar. Understanding that the ebb and flow of hold 'em isn't out to get you is the hardest thing to cope with as a new player, or even someone who's been playing a while. You can feel like you can't play at all for a month or more at a time and make it all back up and feel like you've "turned the corner" with your knowledge in one session. Ultimately you have to realize that the overall picture is a slow steady grind that seesaws between terrible loses and marginal gains...the trick is for the marginal gains to slightly outweigh the terrible loses [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

O.

[Sqwrlking]

Just don't start saying "The don't respect my raises", please [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I won't repeat what everyone has said, except say that I did the exact same thing you did. Moved up to 1/2 at $100, lost it all, redeposited and haven't gone busto after I started the 300 BB rule. Playing 6max now, so using a 500 BB rule which is more suitable for that. Good luck!