The Lay-down that gets you to the WSOP

Prime Time · #1 03-20-2006, 10:36 AM

Well not really.
Seat was a lock needing just one more to bust.
29 seats granted, 30 left. I'm middle of pack.
SS calls from early position (too suspicious)
and knew he wanted to get it all in.

I muck JJ.
I believe this is standard Sat play.
As it turns out, big stack behind me has KK.
If I call, no damage, but why risk anything now?
Any debates on this?

*********** # 466 **************
PokerStars Game #4349763818: Tournament #21200340, Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII
(1500/3000) - 2006/03/20 - 00:47:00 (ET)
Table '21200340 24' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: PGA71 (42457 in chips)
Seat 2: Pechorin (22038 in chips)
Seat 3: PapaSmurf84 (67110 in chips)
Seat 4: calluch (31825 in chips)
Seat 5: Dunkelb1 (36487 in chips)
Seat 6: mrrain (66456 in chips)
Seat 7: gwilkx (12753 in chips)
Seat 8: SuperDuty (43060 in chips)
PGA71: posts the ante 150
Pechorin: posts the ante 150
PapaSmurf84: posts the ante 150
calluch: posts the ante 150
Dunkelb1: posts the ante 150
mrrain: posts the ante 150
gwilkx: posts the ante 150
SuperDuty: posts the ante 150
PapaSmurf84: posts small blind 1500
calluch: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PGA71 [Js Jc]
Pechorin said, "oh god i gotta control the donk thanatos"
Dunkelb1: folds
mrrain: folds
gwilkx: calls 3000
SuperDuty: folds
littlela [observer] said, "bust someone so i can g=o to bed"
PGA71: folds
Pechorin: folds
PapaSmurf84: raises 3000 to 6000
calluch: folds
gwilkx: raises 6603 to 12603 and is all-in
PapaSmurf84: calls 6603
*** FLOP *** [6d 2h Qs]
mrrain said, "wow"
TODZILA [observer] said, "cmon"
bn2b [observer] said, "vn slowroll"
Mr. Tim Caum [observer] said, "KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK"
*** TURN *** [6d 2h Qs] [4d]
mrrain said, "gg gw"
Mr. Tim Caum [observer] said, "KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKk"
nachos24 [observer] said, "wakka wakka!"
*** RIVER *** [6d 2h Qs 4d] [Qd]
Mr. Tim Caum [observer] said, "YES"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PapaSmurf84: shows [Kh Kd] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
gwilkx: shows [9h 9s] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
AZFinFan [observer] said, "wow, and he felt the hand coming"
PapaSmurf84 collected 29406 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 29406 | Rake 0
Board [6d 2h Qs 4d Qd]
Seat 1: PGA71 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Pechorin (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: PapaSmurf84 (small blind) showed [Kh Kd] and won (29406) with two pair,
Kings and Queens
Seat 4: calluch (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Dunkelb1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: mrrain folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: gwilkx showed [9h 9s] and lost with two pair, Queens and Nines
Seat 8: SuperDuty folded before Flop (didn't bet)

uclabruinz · #2 03-20-2006, 10:51 AM

Converters are a good thing, or at least edit it down to the relevant information.

Toro · #3 03-20-2006, 10:51 AM

Just 3 comments:

1. Absolutely the correct play. Once you are guaranteed a seat, it would be correct to fold AA.

2. Congradualtions you bastard, I'm jealous.

3. Please use hand converter. Actually this should be a rule for the MTT forum.

Link for hand converter

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero (t42457)
Button (t22038)
SB (t67110)
BB (t31825)
UTG (t36487)
UTG+1 (t66456)
MP1 (t12753)
MP2 (t43060)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls t3000, 3 folds, SB raises to t6000, 1 fold, MP1 raises to t12753, SB calls t6603.

Flop: (t26256) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t26256) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t26256) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t26256

Results in white below: 
SB has Kh Kd (two pair, kings and queens).
MP1 has 9h 9s (two pair, queens and nines).
Outcome: SB wins t26256.

seke2 · #4 03-20-2006, 10:53 AM

Well, with the shorty expressing interest in the hand, and you holding JJ, I suspect it's probably appropriate for you to be involved in the hand. Largely because unless someone has an absolute monster preflop, you almost certainly won't have to play for more than 12753 chips, which you can afford to lose and still be in comfortable shape to get a seat. The reward for calling and getting involved for the minimum number of chips is to make sure shorty doesn't win the hand is a WSOP seat for you.

I'd have called or even minraised here. Basically, I don't want to risk more than 12753 chips, and expect that I would check it down with any other player without the nuts if we get all in preflop.

Basically, I think the risk of losing 1/4 of your stack in this spot and still having 10xBB left is worth it, since you may very well help seal your own WSOP seat with a hand as strong as JJ.

Toro · #5 03-20-2006, 10:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, with the shorty expressing interest in the hand, and you holding JJ, I suspect it's probably appropriate for you to be involved in the hand. Largely because unless someone has an absolute monster preflop, you almost certainly won't have to play for more than 12753 chips, which you can afford to lose and still be in comfortable shape to get a seat. The reward for calling and getting involved for the minimum number of chips is to make sure shorty doesn't win the hand is a WSOP seat for you.

I'd have called or even minraised here. Basically, I don't want to risk more than 12753 chips, and expect that I would check it down with any other player without the nuts if we get all in preflop.

Basically, I think the risk of losing 1/4 of your stack in this spot and still having 10xBB left is worth it, since you may very well help seal your own WSOP seat with a hand as strong as JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Terrible advice. No reason at all to get involved. The only way I play sheriff is if i am one of the big big stacks and I'm against a shorty. Then you're obligated to take him out to end the thing.

seke2 · #6 03-20-2006, 10:59 AM

Really? Meh, ok. I don't do many sats, guess I have some things to learn.

This seems like a spot where the risk is worth the reward. How are you ever supposed to end the thing if you don't do anything even when you have a very strong hand? I mean, when the shortie gets desperate, SOMEONE has to actually call to knock him out, and when you're the guy with the big hand, how does that not become you? Should Hero fold AA here?

Is the general concept here that you just flat assume that someone else who knows less about late sat strategy (say, like, me) will be willing to make a call and knock someone out before you have to worry about it?

NHFunkii · #7 03-20-2006, 11:01 AM

one of the easiest places to lay down AA I've ever seen
for the record I've laid down aces at least 5 times, each time correctly

betgo · #8 03-20-2006, 11:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Really? Meh, ok. I don't do many sats, guess I have some things to learn.

This seems like a spot where the risk is worth the reward. How are you ever supposed to end the thing if you don't do anything even when you have a very strong hand? I mean, when the shortie gets desperate, SOMEONE has to actually call to knock him out, and when you're the guy with the big hand, how does that not become you? Should Hero fold AA here?

Is the general concept here that you just flat assume that someone else who knows less about late sat strategy (say, like, me) will be willing to make a call and knock someone out before you have to worry about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am big on fold your way in. However, here I like flat call and fold if anyone raises. You have the seat locked up by folding. However, if you call, you probably have about a 60% chance of winning the hand and ending it right there. If you lose, you can still fold your way in.

slickpoppa · #9 03-20-2006, 11:06 AM

standard

icemanjmw · #10 03-20-2006, 11:09 AM

I never play thesee big satellites, so I have a question/comment regarding this hand.
First, we can be almost certain that Papasmurf is going to put in the other 6k to call the all-in. If we know nothing about Papasmurf can we assume that if we just smooth call, he will also call and be willing to check it through to the end to eliminate this last player? If we think he'll be willing to check it down then this becomes a good time to call right?