AK

Spy Dog · #1 03-20-2006, 09:53 AM

Villian is 35/20/2.3

Ultimate Bet 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, Hero caps, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks..........

Schizo · #2 03-20-2006, 09:55 AM

Depends on the player but you have to pop the flop or the turn. If you are going to play it like the way you did donk the river as KK,QQ,JJ will often play this way and check behind.

I don't like this hand at all.

Jeffage · #3 03-20-2006, 10:17 AM

I'd go ahead and checkraise the turn - you'll be called by worse aces a lot of the time and sometimes by frustrated pocket pairs like QQ. I'd definitely be working a raise in somewhere.

Jeff

Scott Y. · #4 03-20-2006, 10:25 AM

Don't you think a ton of big PPs, i.e. ones that don't want to bet/fold turn (which isn't a big victory for Hero anyway), simply check behind the turn and call a river bet UI?

If you 3-bet the flop immediately I think there's a much better chance you are looked up or even raised on the turn by a strong 2nd best hand if you have an aggressive image. If it were heads-up I might try something speculative like a checkraise to induce action from worse hands - unfortuately the mindgame is less effective 3-way.

In any case, this is another arena in which a slightly loose/aggressive/unpredictable image encourages opponents to make mistakes they wouldn't make against a more solid (reliable) opponent. People fold less when they don't trust you.

helpmeout · #5 03-20-2006, 10:30 AM

i call the raise and CR the turn. If you 3bet the flop you usually lose big PPs.

I'm not worried if they check behind on the turn as long as they call a river bet. They arent drawing to much and you probably arent getting any extra bets out of them anyway.

Big aces will likely bet the turn and call a raise.

newhizzle · #6 03-20-2006, 10:32 AM

i usually mix it up between 3-betting the flop and check/raising the turn, i dont really like waiting till the river as much here because he may check some hands behind or give you some extra action on an earlier street with a weaker ace

flawless_victory · #7 03-20-2006, 10:32 AM

flop and turn plays look like u thought to yourself, "how could i possibly win the least w/ my obv winning hand?"...

as played CR the river... whether to cap or just call if threebet is v opp dependent...

Schizo · #8 03-20-2006, 11:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
flop and turn plays look like u thought to yourself, "how could i possibly win the least w/ my obv winning hand?"...

[/ QUOTE ]

If you didn't normally give good advice I would think you were a troll. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
as played CR the river... whether to cap or just call if threebet is v opp dependent...

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't always correct. If he 3 bets with AJ+ and 77+ and checks the river with his pocket pairs fearing we have an ace then we must bet this river.

We will gain 1 by checkraising 16 combos of AQ and AJ for a total of +16. And we will lose 1 from TT-KK that check might check the river for a total of -24 since those would of called a river donk. If he 3 bets 77-99 then we lose -18 more BB's. Well to be honest with 77 we will get 3 bet on the river so we lose 12 for the 88 and 99 and 9 BB's total from the 3 combos of 77. Also lets not forget one combo of AA. So -24-12-9-3 =-48. So in this situation checkraising the river is a ~0.57 BB mistake.

Given the amount we lose is way more than the amount we win vs a typical tag I think this is an easy river donk. Against a typical party member? Well you do the combos and be nice enough to post it when you come up with a hand range. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] But there is enough of a buffer that givin our preflop cap I'm comfortably donking this river.

Adam Stewart · #9 03-20-2006, 01:15 PM

3-bet the flop.

There is no guarantee that Button will bet the turn, so you can't necessarily count on being able to check-raise the turn.

Plus, if you get capped by the Button, you can then slow down on the turn and river, possibly saving you a big bet or two.

Adam

surfdoc · #10 03-20-2006, 01:37 PM

I like to keep the lead OOP and prefer to 3 bet flop and lead turn but this is a good time to mix it up with a few of the lines you described. This guy is LAGGY and his flop raise means very little. In my experience these guys rarely find a fold with JJ-KK here but will often check one of the bigger streets which no me gusta. There is also the added benefit of excessive action from a hand like AQ/AJ which is nice.