Beat the Russki: NWP needs help from smart 2+2 people

[Braden99]

Hello,
This was posted over at NWP and we wanted to see if anyone can figure out if the russki has an advantage in this game or how many cards it would take to even it out:

"Beat the Russki"

The GCC invented a new poker game on this cruise, and we played it for about 10 hours yesterday. It's called Beat the Russki because Eugeneel is Russian, and the rest of the GCC would get wasted and come back to the cabin and start hitting him with pillows, calling the game "Beat the Russki"

They wanted to make it into a card game, and the brainstorming started. The game is played like this:

There must be at least 3 players, a full table is best. The player on the dealer button is "the Russki" and must match *every bet* put into the pot from other players. EVERY BET, SO IF THE RUSSKI DOESN'T FOLD HE IS IN FOR HALF THE TOTAL POT. To combat this huge wagering, he is dealt 5 cards and can use them to make his best 2-card Hold'em hand. less players in the game, less cards the Russki gets. (3-5 handed, Russki gets 3 cards. 6-7 handed, 4 cards, and 8+ handed 5 cards)

@ 20-40, The Russki posts $30 (sb + bb) on the button to immediately match the blinds, and the game involves a lot of limping. Beating a 5 card hand is tough, but when you do you win a huuuuuuuuuge pot. Remember, if there are 5 limps before the button, the Russki would then put in and xtra $100 if he would like to call. Of course he can fold, but the 5-card Russki hand is very powerful and usually wins the pot. If players call, the Russki must keep matching every bet.

The action continues the same on the turn / river - the Russki must continue to match every single bet to stay in the pot - other players' bad calls hurt the Russki too! HE MUST MATCH EVERY BET.

frequently the pf action is limp, limp, limp, limp, limp, limp, Russki calls $120 or whatever, then the dirty sb or bb Raises and everyone calls. I called $560 pf once, and there was a $3k pot pushed.

Also, when you actually beat the Russki in a pot, a chant of 1-2-3 "BEAT HE RUSSKI!!!" was screamed throughout the poker room. Avg. pot size @ 20-40 was around 1.5k - 2k.

********


Obviously the game would be fair since all positions rotate but should the russki win more than his fair share?

[Bryan Micon]

TY 2+2. We played this game on the Party cruise a few times, and it is very balanced. I really hope 1 of u runs the math on this and figure out if it is a balanced game where skill would play a huge factor. Here is the link if u have questions:

http://www.neverwinpoker.com/phpnuke...ic&t=16986

[AaronBrown]

In a ten-person game, the Russki's median hand is a pair of 9's. If everyone stays in until showdown, Russki wins only 1 time in 6. So clearly he has a big negative EV if this happens.

Almost everyone should see the flop. If everyone calls, you pay $20 to be in a $400 pot. With those kind of odds, only the weakest hands should be thrown away. The Russki's strength is mostly against good hand, he'll usually have two high cards (either paired or suited). If you call with 32o, you have a 5.6% chance of winning the hand at showdown in normal hold'em, generally because you get a straight or two pair or better without high cards on the board. If that happens, you'll likely beat the Russki even more easily than an average hand.

The Russki really can't fold pre-flop. If he waits for top hands, he goes broke from the $30 blinds. He rarely gets really weak hands, there isn't much difference in his hand strengths once you get past AA, KK and QQ. Moreover, because his weak hands are rare, they are deceptive.

Once the flop comes down, if it's got high cards, the table should usually fold. Playing heads up, the Russki has no disadvantage. It's unlikely two people have good enough hands to take on the Russki's hand with a high card flop, even with the Russki betting double.

If the flop doesn't have high cards, the Russki usually should fold (except in those rare instances when he holds low cards). Someone almost certainly has him beat, and several people may feel they have good shots.

[odellthurman]

Beat the Russki? A bunch of guys hitting him with pillows? Sounds unusual - - - not that there's anything wrong with it.

[RussianBear]

You can't beat us. Napoleon tried. Hitler tried. After 300 years we even defeated the Mongolians. Mother Russia cannot be conquered.

[Bryan Micon]

Anyone? Anyone can prove the balance in this game? I know from playing it that this game is really balanced - is there any mathmatical proof?

WHERE IS MR. SKALANSKY?

[RickyG]

cross post in the math forum. They are more likely to respond.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't beat us. Napoleon tried. Hitler tried. After 300 years we even defeated the Mongolians. Mother Russia cannot be conquered.

[/ QUOTE ]

except by itself.

Barron

[Bryan Micon]

eh, some good 2+2'er crosspost this magnificant bastard. I thought 2+2 would really help the degenerates out on this 1!

[Fryguy]

Um, what about the russki raising, especially preflop. It seems like he needs an extraordinarily powerful hand to be able to do this, since his raise is getting 1:2 (he has to put in again everytime somebody calls his raise).

Since the ruski is pretty much unable to raise without nut and near-nut hands, I'm not sure how this game can be fair.